Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
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Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#2Given the information that this AI now has and the ability it's displayed, should WotC/Hasbro consider actively banning players from using AI to build standard-format Constructed decks? After all, if the author actually is correct and draftbot here picks better than humans, wouldn't it stand to reason that it could build optimal decks if given a "draft" which included multiple iterations of the program working in tandem over an entire set?
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#3Given the information that this AI now has and the ability it's displayed, should WotC/Hasbro consider actively banning players from using AI to build standard-format Constructed decks? After all, if the author actually is correct and draftbot here picks better than humans, wouldn't it stand to reason that it could build optimal decks if given a "draft" which included multiple iterations of the program working in tan…
Not at all.
Constructed players already (for a very long time) use the collective data of other players — this has lots of names, it is commonly called “net-decking”. It turns out, that the best players and the best deck builders have a lot of overlap, but not completely so, and it’s common for multiple high-ranking players to play the same decks. A key skill to winning tournaments is to figure out what decks are going to be played by the other top players, and how to give yourself the best chance against them.
In other words, MtG is a game where deck-construction and deck-playing are both important and distinct skills, and high-level tournaments generally assume a high level of both, so a helper bot for the former is unlikely to give an advantage (because it’s compared to “the best efforts of a lot of people over a lot of time”).
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#4Given the information that this AI now has and the ability it's displayed, should WotC/Hasbro consider actively banning players from using AI to build standard-format Constructed decks? After all, if the author actually is correct and draftbot here picks better than humans, wouldn't it stand to reason that it could build optimal decks if given a "draft" which included multiple iterations of the program working in tan…
I'm not super well versed in MtG (I've played, but never competitively), but a similar thing is common in Dominion. Any discussion about strategy in a particular game is usually settled by running a simulator pitting two strategies against each other a few thousand times. Eventually, these simulators have made their way into play testing potential new cards.
At the end of the day, these are games sufficiently complex that no single strategy will be optimal. Dominion has something on the order of 10^15 possible game configurations. Simulations are just a tool available to prepare and test potential strategies. I suspect MtG would land in a similar space if an "optimal deck builder" surfaced. You still have to play the game and beat your opponent.
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#5Will AI learn that drafting is rigged?
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#6This is cool stuff. Have you checked out mtgtop8.com? Some code for it from back in Kaladesh: https://github.com/ivodopyanov/MTGML. I asked the dev a couple of years ago and he said he had a newer version, but it wasn't on github.
Thinking about your jellybean guessing (wisdom of the crowds) analogy, I don't want an unweighted average of a Ben Stark and a random player. Years ago mtgo elo ratings were public - seems like that could be useful. With something like the deckmaster twitch extension you could (theoretically) grab drafts from stream replays of great players. Especially with the MPL players required to stream there must be some great data on video.
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#7This is cool stuff. Have you checked out mtgtop8.com? Some code for it from back in Kaladesh: https://github.com/ivodopyanov/MTGML . I asked the dev a couple of years ago and he said he had a newer version, but it wasn't on github. Thinking about your jellybean guessing (wisdom of the crowds) analogy, I don't want an unweighted average of a Ben Stark and a random player. Years ago mtgo elo ratings were public - seems…
Oops, I wrote mtgtop8.com when I meant top8draft.com. Thought I could edit comments but I don't see a way now.
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#8When they say “Constructed” is expensive because you have to acquire the cards ahead of time... why don’t tournaments allow you to play with cards where you’ve just scribbled with Sharpie whatever card you want it to act as?
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#9When they say “Constructed” is expensive because you have to acquire the cards ahead of time... why don’t tournaments allow you to play with cards where you’ve just scribbled with Sharpie whatever card you want it to act as?
I would assume because the tournaments are sponsored by (or at least tolerated by) the copyright holders of the cards.
Re: Teaching an AI to Draft Magic: The Gathering
#10When they say “Constructed” is expensive because you have to acquire the cards ahead of time... why don’t tournaments allow you to play with cards where you’ve just scribbled with Sharpie whatever card you want it to act as?
Those would be called "proxy" cards in mtg, and they are occasionally used in casual play.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Proxy
But of course the whole concept of MTG is collectible card game, buying and owning cards is core part of it