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Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

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Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#1
I detest recruiters with the fiery incandescent white hot burning heat of a nova, but unfortunately I feel like i have to deal with them because I live in Edinburgh but work in London, i dont take part in the local community because i'm not there.

I applied for a 3 month contract position online. I have this recruiter call me and give me the usual bullshit and it gets to the usual "can i send over your CV to them?", I say sure as i always do after they've wasted 15 minutes of my time asking if i know PHP, if i then know LAMP, then asking my if i know Linux, apache and MySQL, then asking me if i know HTML, then CSS and you get the idea. They ask me all these questions even though 1) my CV they are looking at in front of them says so and 2) they got my CV by me sending it on an online ad asking for these specific skills.

So after i've given them permission to send my CV, the woman asks me for 2 technical references, i say to her that if the company likes the look of my CV then i'd be happy to provide references but i dont just hand out peoples details on a whim because i'd hate people to do that to me. She tells me that she cant send my CV without first getting the references. Normally i'd tell her to piss off politely at this point but the daily rate was going through the market rate ceiling and i'm a whore for money.

So i say sure, i'll give you references, i'll go and get permission from them and get back to you. I do this and email her the next day with contact details. She emails back and asks what companies they work for, i tell them they're freelancers that i've done work for. She says that colleagues arent good enough and will need managers i've worked under. I explain they're clients, not colleagues, and that i'm not an employee, i'm a self employed developer with my own company and clients, i dont and have never had a manager, i'm the guy people come to because they're not technical, i take care of everything for them. The position i'm looking for requires me to be the main technical guy there, surely she'd get where i'm coming from. She asked for technical references, thats what i gave her, people who understood and could articulate my technical ability.

But alas no, i've been penalised for not being a corporate drone, i avoid working for large corporations because its soul destroying and i hate bureaucracy. I like working for other freelancers and small agencies, its far more friendly and less political and i dont have to write screeds of bullshit documents when a quick email is good enough.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but this pissed me off today, i really wish i could totally avoid recruiters as when i have found work without them its been orders of magnitude easier and faster, but they know where the good paying gigs are. Someone please disrupt this industry.

tl;dr Recruiters suck and only care about arbitrary bullshit.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#2
Why are you going through recruiters?

You already know how to market yourself. You're just trying to market yourself to a different set of people.

Also, you can't at the same time say you're a whore for money and then complain that you have to prostitute yourself to make your money.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#3
post #2

Why are you going through recruiters? You already know how to market yourself. You're just trying to market yourself to a different set of people. Also, you can't at the same time say you're a whore for money and then complain that you have to prostitute yourself to make your money.

I can get work myself but its only about half as well paid as the jobs i can get from recruiters. I can live on what i make as a freelancer, but i get a much larger injection of cash if i take on an on-site contract. This is the only reason.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#5
You have failed to understand her job. Her clients are requiring these things.

I know this, because the company I work for has had to draw hard lines on recruiters. Before that, they would send us utter crap and waste our time. Now, we don't get many hits, but most of them are actually worth talking to.

She asked you all those questions because when she assumes things, her customers get really angry. Sending bad recruits can get her banned from that company altogether.

She asked for corporate drone references because you'll be doing corporate drone work and her clients want to make sure you can do it.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#7
Here's my experience with HHs from the financial industry. There is a large batch of newbie HH's coming straight from college who are pushed hardly to overperform and 'make it'. I've found that the inexperienced recruiters can be quite pushy and aggressive and so frankly, in situations like you describe just say thank you and bye quickly.

The established and more senior recruiters will be much more professional and polished. They all have their quirks and little tricks, but just learn to deal with it and if you're senior enough, be patient to find appropriate recruiters.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#8
post #2

Why are you going through recruiters? You already know how to market yourself. You're just trying to market yourself to a different set of people. Also, you can't at the same time say you're a whore for money and then complain that you have to prostitute yourself to make your money.

The reality of the situation is that if you want to work for a large corporation, then you're stuck playing their games. I've had a recruiter ask for references upfront. They don't always check them, but references are required for their software. Also, the other commenter noted that the recruiter is likely using your references to build a list of contacts. A list of line managers is more valuable to a recruiter than a list of technicians since the line managers make hiring decisions and serve as contacts for additional sales.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#9
post #4

Her insistence on getting managers for references makes me wonder whether she wasn't mining you for new prospective customers (on the employer side).

That is exactly why she was asking for references and why you shouldn't give them to a recruiter, only to the employer.

Re: Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

#10
I have been freelancing in Europe for the last 10 years and I have learned to avoid recruiters as much as I can. In the last 4 years I have managed to get contracts through connections and skip middlemen all-together. It takes more time but it's rewarding.

Few rules I use when I deal with recruiters (in Europe):

1) There are really an handful of recruitment companies with a good reputation and history. By default, I distrust a recruiter calling from an unknown agency. There must be thousands of small recruitment agencies in Europe, I get a fairly high amount of emails/calls every week and I mostly ignore them.

2) Be suspicious when a recruiter knocks at your door or publish a job ad with an out-of-market rate. Rates are low these days. They just want to harvest CVs.

3) If a recruiter insists in having references is a contacts-harvesting cowboy. Treat him like you would treat a zombie. I only give references after the initial interview.

4) Don't waste time talking technical stuff with a recruiter. They don't know shit. In 10+ years I have met maybe 2 recruiters with a real technical/dev background. Most of the time, recruiters end up being recruiters just because they failed at everything else.

5) Most of the time jobs coming from recruiters suck. A company with a decent vision on how to build software will never use zombie recruiters. Maybe they will contact one of the big player or, more likely, they will go on the market themselves. Recruiters jobs are mostly financial/telco crap where Java 1.4 is the standard.

6) Be aggressive when it comes to rates. Recruiters markup is around 20% (again in Europe). It may vary dramatically. So think about it: You are giving 20% of your salary to a guy who phoned you one day, sent you to an interview the next and disappeared. Also, some recruiters (very few) are transparent about the markup. They are normally worth your trust.

7) When you leave a contract, keep good relationship with everyone at every cost. It will pay back.

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