Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
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Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#2Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#3Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.
Would it still be an issue if they weren't slaves but well-paid positions?
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#4Article fails to explore the apparent conflicts of interest, which remain even if you happen to think it's fair for private parties to hire their own firefighters.
For a start, are Kim's team allowed to tap public hydrants? This will reduce pressure available to any public firefighters nearby.
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#5Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.
> slave labor
Source? If you are referring to inmates who volunteer to fight fires, then you are just plain wrong.
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#6Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.
> slave labor Source? If you are referring to inmates who volunteer to fight fires, then you are just plain wrong.
I didn't say it was illegal slave labor. But it's absolutely slave labor. Under Federal law its defined as "the services of a person... by means of force, threats of force, physical restraint, or threats of physical restraint to that person or another person."[1] Imprisonment is a physical restraint. If you pull the entire statute you'll notice that consent isn't a defense. That's because consent and coercion are mutually exclusive.
The Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crime.
Make no mistake, those "volunteers" are modern day slaves. They may have the blessing of the Constitution, but they're slaves nonetheless. Colorado actually just officially outlawed it last week.[2] A few other sources:
- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/opinion/national-prison-s...
- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prison-strike-modern-da...
- https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-prison-labor
[1] 18 U.S. Code § 1589
[2] https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/6/18056408/c...
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
> slave labor Source? If you are referring to inmates who volunteer to fight fires, then you are just plain wrong.
I didn't say it was illegal slave labor. But it's absolutely slave labor. Under Federal law its defined as "the services of a person... by means of force, threats of force, physical restraint, or threats of physical restraint to that person or another person."[1] Imprisonment is a physical restraint. If you pull the entire statute you'll notice that consent isn't a defense. That's because consent and coercion are mut…
Federal, sure, but not all inmate firefighters are in federal prison, and some (most?) states have voted to remove the 'except as punishment for crime' bit.
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't say it was illegal slave labor. But it's absolutely slave labor. Under Federal law its defined as "the services of a person... by means of force, threats of force, physical restraint, or threats of physical restraint to that person or another person."[1] Imprisonment is a physical restraint. If you pull the entire statute you'll notice that consent isn't a defense. That's because consent and coercion are mut…
Federal, sure, but not all inmate firefighters are in federal prison, and some (most?) states have voted to remove the 'except as punishment for crime' bit.
Removing the language doesn't suddenly not make it slavery.
When the states remove that language it means prison labor programs (such as the one in California) are unconstitutional. Why? Because those programs are slavery and when that language is removed those programs no longer have the exemption that made it constitutional.
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#9Private firefighters for the wealthy and slave labor fighting the fires for the rest of us. Truly disgusting.
Would it still be an issue if they weren't slaves but well-paid positions?
Labor is labor and it should be compensated at a market rate based on the value that labor adds. A non-prisoner firefighter earns about $17/hour compares to a prisoner firefighter's $1/hour. Does the non-prisoner fight the fires any better than the prisoner? How about $16/hour better?
Re: Kim Kardashian's Private Firefighters Expose the Fault Lines of America
#10I don’t understand the issue here. Couple buys very expensive item that few others purchase; item is very expensive to insure; for hire firefighters are cheaper than replacing the item (and any dependencies) at a loss; insurers dispatch said firefighters to avoid total loss.
Doing this for everyone wouldn’t scale, which is why towns have firefighting units.
Also, people have a weird aversion to insurance for expensive items. So many people (at least on Reddit) advocate against purchasing AppleCare and additional insurance for $1000+ items but balk at the high cost of replacing a broken screen... that’s much cheaper to fix with insurance.