NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
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Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#2In a surprise to no one, recording devices installed in users’ homes have recordings used in a court of law against the homeowner.
In a surprise to no one, the third party doctrine means a warrant isn’t even required to demand these recordings from the cloud provider.
In a surprise to no one, the NSA can intercept these recordings (and associated speech to text transcripts), load all the associated data into their monster correlation engine, mine the shit out of it, and say they didn’t “collect” anything because they haven’t actually put a bag over your head, driven you to a black site, and waterboarded you. Yet.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#3I still don't understand why this is possible.
I've frequently seen the claim that an Echo only records brief snippets, looking for the wake word.
If that's so, there's next to nothing for Amazon to hand over.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#4In a surprise to no one, recording devices installed in users’ homes have recordings used in a court of law against the homeowner. In a surprise to no one, the third party doctrine means a warrant isn’t even required to demand these recordings from the cloud provider. In a surprise to no one, the NSA can intercept these recordings (and associated speech to text transcripts), load all the associated data into their mo…
And people looked at you like you were an absolute raving loon if you tried to explain the architecture of the ECHELON program, 15 years ago. Now who's laughing...
I encourage everyone who is not familiar with them to read all of James Bamford's books on the NSA. And Robert Baer's books on the CIA.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#5In a surprise to no one, recording devices installed in users’ homes have recordings used in a court of law against the homeowner. In a surprise to no one, the third party doctrine means a warrant isn’t even required to demand these recordings from the cloud provider. In a surprise to no one, the NSA can intercept these recordings (and associated speech to text transcripts), load all the associated data into their mo…
And people looked at you like you were an absolute raving loon if you tried to explain the architecture of the ECHELON program, 15 years ago. Now who's laughing... I encourage everyone who is not familiar with them to read all of James Bamford's books on the NSA. And Robert Baer's books on the CIA.
But why make the government pay for it, when users will go on Amazon.com and pay to install their very own personal cloud home listening devices all by themselves?!
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#6I know that this article itself doesn’t have much content but I’m interested in what the police are actually requesting, and what they end up getting. Do they assume/suspect that Echo/Amazon continuously records and logs audio, akin to a security camera? Or do they have evidence that Echo was actually activated around the time of the murders, or afterwards by the suspect himself?
I was also interested in this quote:
> "I think most people probably don't even realize that Alexa is taking account of what's going on in your house, in addition to responding to your demands and commands," said Albert Scherr, a professor at the University of New Hampshire School of Law.
What is it that users don’t realize? Anecdotally, just about everyone I know who has refused to have an Echo do so because they believe Echo is doing far more surreptitious surveillance and analysis, i.e. not just listening for the trigger word. Though I’m sure most users don’t realize that when Alexa does trigger, she sends the audio to the Amazon mothership, which are then stored/analyzed for an indefinite time. Though most people don’t realize the most basic things about data, like how when you friend someone on FB, FB actually stores a log of your friends, and any other kind of stated interaction, such as the users you’ve blocked
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#7I know that this article itself doesn’t have much content but I’m interested in what the police are actually requesting, and what they end up getting. Do they assume/suspect that Echo/Amazon continuously records and logs audio, akin to a security camera? Or do they have evidence that Echo was actually activated around the time of the murders, or afterwards by the suspect himself? I was also interested in this quote:…
> Do they assume/suspect that Echo/Amazon continuously records and logs audio, akin to a security camera?
Yes, I think random non-technical homicide detectives might very well assume this. They're fishing for anything they can get, even if it's a 1% chance. Almost certainly the subpoena response from Amazon will be that they are not in possession of a recording.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#8I still don't understand why this is possible. I've frequently seen the claim that an Echo only records brief snippets, looking for the wake word. If that's so, there's next to nothing for Amazon to hand over.
It’s not possible. This is a classic example of the legal system confusing reality with science fiction.
You can monitor Echo itself over your network and quickly realize that it’s not sending a constant stream of voice data. For the most part the device is off until it hears its name.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#9I still don't understand why this is possible. I've frequently seen the claim that an Echo only records brief snippets, looking for the wake word. If that's so, there's next to nothing for Amazon to hand over.
It’s not possible. This is a classic example of the legal system confusing reality with science fiction. You can monitor Echo itself over your network and quickly realize that it’s not sending a constant stream of voice data. For the most part the device is off until it hears its name.
On the other hand, if the government comes to Amazon with a valid sealed court order, are you willing to bet they'll stand up rather than start streaming audio recordings home?
Amazon winning DoD cloud business is actually the smartest thing the US government could do to align interests.
Re: NH judge orders Amazon to give Echo recordings in murder case
#10In a surprise to no one, recording devices installed in users’ homes have recordings used in a court of law against the homeowner. In a surprise to no one, the third party doctrine means a warrant isn’t even required to demand these recordings from the cloud provider. In a surprise to no one, the NSA can intercept these recordings (and associated speech to text transcripts), load all the associated data into their mo…
And people looked at you like you were an absolute raving loon if you tried to explain the architecture of the ECHELON program, 15 years ago. Now who's laughing... I encourage everyone who is not familiar with them to read all of James Bamford's books on the NSA. And Robert Baer's books on the CIA.
> And people looked at you like you were an absolute raving loon if you tried to explain the architecture of the ECHELON program, 15 years ago. Now who's laughing...
I would imagine Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK, & the US.