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What exactly is Full Stack these days?

news.ycombinator.com

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What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#1

Post by ccachor »

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm getting pissed off at job requirements. For example, below:

==============================================

The ideal candidate has the following qualifications:

Deep understanding of front-end JavaScript development using libraries such as React, Angular, etc. Basic understanding of AWS Services, such as Lambda, API Gateway, CodeCommit, CodeBuild, CodeDeploy, and CodePipline Expert in CSS/HTML5 Deep understanding of development using either Python, Node, or Ruby Comfortable and excited about interacting with clients and end users Expertise in developing under Linux or OS X Desire to pursue AWS Development Certifications toward expert-level achievement Familiarity with SQL and NOSQL databases Experience with orchestration tools such as Ansible, Salt, Chef, or Puppet Experience with Vagrant or Docker Familiarity with continuous integration systems such as Jenkins or Bamboo Familiarity with tracking systems such as JIRA Ability to work independently and collaboratively – self-motivated, accountable, and able to offer up new ideas Critical thinking, troubleshooting, and problem-solving talents A balance of technical, business, and social/emotional intelligence Passion about learning coupled with an ability to learn new skills quickly

==============================================

Oh really!?!? So, you're looking for a sysadmin, a backend developer, a front-end developer and you expect them to be socio/emotionally well balanced?!

Is this an exercise for the hiring manager to feel better about themselves? Face meet palm, they're trying to hire Superman.

Fuck the hell off.

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#3

Post by dagw »

I guess it all comes down to what they mean by "basic understanding", "experience" and "familiarity". I am pretty inexperienced with modern web developer, but I still have a basic understanding what the difference AWS services do (ie I've read the description of them on the AWS homepage). I have experience with Vagrant and Docker (ie I've installed and played around with both and some point). I'm familiar with tracking systems such as JIRA (although not actually JIRA).

Basically don't read too much into lists like this. As long as you've heard of everything on the list and are good at two of the most import ones you're probably good to go.

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#4

Post by CDCollier »

I see nothing here that an inept individual with a 4 year degree and an attuned interest in the industry couldn't achieve within 10 years. Much less if they are motivated and establish healthy habits.

I don't see bullet-proof or laser vision on the list.

Besides, wouldn't you want to know all of this? The bigger your tool set, the better your development.

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#5

Post by ccachor »

CDCollier wrote: post #4

I see nothing here that an inept individual with a 4 year degree and an attuned interest in the industry couldn't achieve within 10 years. Much less if they are motivated and establish healthy habits. I don't see bullet-proof or laser vision on the list. Besides, wouldn't you want to know all of this? The bigger your tool set, the better your development.

Except I don't think that's the case. The field is too wide for someone's attention to go deep in all of those areas. You might say, well give me a 10 yr runway. The problem is most of those technologies won't be the same in 10 yrs.

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#6

Post by ccachor »

daedalbug wrote: post #2

I don't think that's too bad though - I'd prefer them to clarify what they mean by 'deep' vs 'basic' understanding, but I certainly know a few developers with 3-5 years experience who could comfortably tick the box

You need them to clarify deep understanding? If someone said they wanted a candidate to have a deep understanding of jet engines, I'd expect they know every single thing there is to know about them.

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#7

Post by oblib »

That is an hilarious list of expectations. It's akin to announcing they have an concept for a product and no idea how to make it so you'll have to know and do everything that might possibly be needed to accomplish it from start to finish including the patience to address their every whim along the way.

They don't say how long they'll give you to make it but I'd bet they'll expect it ready to ship in a few weeks or a month at most :D

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#8

Post by daedalbug »

ccachor wrote: post #6
daedalbug wrote: post #2

I don't think that's too bad though - I'd prefer them to clarify what they mean by 'deep' vs 'basic' understanding, but I certainly know a few developers with 3-5 years experience who could comfortably tick the box

You need them to clarify deep understanding? If someone said they wanted a candidate to have a deep understanding of jet engines, I'd expect they know every single thing there is to know about them.

except we're not talking about jet engines - I was asking at what point does basic become deep, hence the next remark referring to 'years of experience' as a benchmark

Re: What exactly is Full Stack these days?

#9

Post by CDCollier »

ccachor wrote: post #5
CDCollier wrote: post #4

I see nothing here that an inept individual with a 4 year degree and an attuned interest in the industry couldn't achieve within 10 years. Much less if they are motivated and establish healthy habits. I don't see bullet-proof or laser vision on the list. Besides, wouldn't you want to know all of this? The bigger your tool set, the better your development.

Except I don't think that's the case. The field is too wide for someone's attention to go deep in all of those areas. You might say, well give me a 10 yr runway. The problem is most of those technologies won't be the same in 10 yrs.

You're absolutely right, but staying informed is part of the responsibility.

PHP, SQL, HTML, CSS and Linux haven't changed so significantly since 2008 that someone who was proficient in 2008 couldn't relatively easily pick it up again today.

There are certainly new expectations and applications which arise every 18 months, but anyone who stays fluent will have little difficulty in mastering all of these - and more.

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