Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
blogs.wsj.com
Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
1–10 of 23 posts
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#2Atlas is shrugging.
EDIT: I meant this only as a connection to the work of literature not at all indicating that the Mega-Wealthy Class actually makes the world go round and is "a good thing"(tm)
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#3Why do people even pay attention to this drivel? Who is going to dream up their fancy meals, drive their fancy cars, clean their fancy housing, and manage their financial empire? This just touches the surface. Who's going to educate the middle class they depend on for execution, protect their property and legal rights? The rich have more to gain through society, law, and government than any other class.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#4Atlas is shrugging. EDIT: I meant this only as a connection to the work of literature not at all indicating that the Mega-Wealthy Class actually makes the world go round and is "a good thing"(tm)
Which "Atlas" are you referring to? If you mean that the American people are tired of supporting a billionaire welfare class, then yeah, maybe.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#5"Some would argue this is a vast overstatement." - always nice when a link-bait-esque article has the counterpoint built right in.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#6Atlas is shrugging. EDIT: I meant this only as a connection to the work of literature not at all indicating that the Mega-Wealthy Class actually makes the world go round and is "a good thing"(tm)
Which "Atlas" are you referring to? If you mean that the American people are tired of supporting a billionaire welfare class, then yeah, maybe.
While both remarks were somewhat snarky, I'd like to hear your evidence that "the American people" are supporting the "billionaire welfare class". It's the first time I've ever heard the table turned like that and would like to learn more.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#7Why do people even pay attention to this drivel? Who is going to dream up their fancy meals, drive their fancy cars, clean their fancy housing, and manage their financial empire? This just touches the surface. Who's going to educate the middle class they depend on for execution, protect their property and legal rights? The rich have more to gain through society, law, and government than any other class.
The article's claim isn't that they don't need the middle and lower classes, just that they don't need the American middle and lower classes (instead, what they need from those classes can come from foreigners).
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which "Atlas" are you referring to? If you mean that the American people are tired of supporting a billionaire welfare class, then yeah, maybe.
While both remarks were somewhat snarky, I'd like to hear your evidence that "the American people" are supporting the "billionaire welfare class". It's the first time I've ever heard the table turned like that and would like to learn more.
America subsidizes its rich tremendously. I have absolutely no problem with the genuinely self-made rich. I have a big problem with billionaire welfare queens.
Direct subsidies:
- In 2008-2009, America bailed out its financial class to the tune of almost a trillion dollars. Some of this was paid back, but it still amounted to a zero-interest loan to people worth $1M+. A lot of it ended up in offshore accounts and bonuses.
- The Federal Reserve system is a crony network that provides zero (or negative!) interest loans to connected banks with which they can gamble in the markets. Their losses can be socialized through mechanisms like bailouts and the FDIC, while gains are privatized. Since this is newly created money, it amounts to a tax on the savings of the rest of the economy. Wouldn't you love to be lent money at 0% interest to gamble in a can't-lose casino?!?
- America's contracting process is hugely corrupt, and there's a huge number of pigs at the trough. Nothing irritates me more than rich people who got rich off government contracts whining about all those "parasites on welfare." (Ironically, the defense contractor crowd funds a lot of right-wing stuff like that.)
- The U.S. military is used partly to protect the politically risky offshore investments of America's moneyed classes. Shell Oil is not charged a fee for service when the U.S. foreign policy apparatus leans on a foreign government or deploys military force to guard its interests. The middle class pays (and sometimes dies) for that.
- The public funds scientific research, while private players get rich off marketing its applications. In some cases technologies are developed whole-cloth in public academic and military institutions and are then more or less handed over to private interests. Tycoons have been getting rich off publicly funded research for a century. Did AT&T have to pay for the development of TCP/IP? Nope, we did. In some cases, private entities even end up as the owners of publicly developed intellectual property. That means they can sue you for using what you paid to invent.
- As an extension of the above, military and scientific SBIR grants are used by many private companies to fund their R&D, which they then keep proprietary and market.
Regressive taxes:
- The tax code is filled with loopholes that require complex accounting to achieve, amounting to a huge regressive tax on those who do not have personal accountants.
- Complex regulations amount to a regressive tax on new entrants to an industry and on smaller players, since larger players can afford to employ armies of paper pushers to comply with the law.
There's more than that I'm sure.
Americans forget all this. They pay out the nose in taxes and government debt to subsidize the rich, and then the rich convince them that they're rugged self-made individualists. Sorry, but to be a rugged self-made individualist tycoon you must: pay for everything you need to set up your venture, pay for every service you use, pay for the development of the IP that you use, and pay everyone you employ. If any of that was subsidized, you fail at claiming to be a self-righteous "Atlas" and need to STFU.
As an engineer, a personal peeve of mine is technology businessmen who beat up on academia... as if they'd have anything to market without academic research. You will find a couple of those on HN from time to time arguing that academia is unnecessary, over-funded, etc. while they sit around plotting the next startup idea based on academic research from the 60s and 70s.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which "Atlas" are you referring to? If you mean that the American people are tired of supporting a billionaire welfare class, then yeah, maybe.
While both remarks were somewhat snarky, I'd like to hear your evidence that "the American people" are supporting the "billionaire welfare class". It's the first time I've ever heard the table turned like that and would like to learn more.
Um, I guess you were frozen in cryostasis pre-2007 and missed the entire financial "crisis" which involved something on the order of $14 trillion (i.e. 1 year's GDP or > the entire national debt) was funneled in the form of free money, loan guarantees, etc. into the pockets of Wall Street and the rich. Welcome, and prepare to be surprised at our new president's middle name and how crazy Mel Gibson really is.
Re: Do the Rich Need the Rest of America?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
While both remarks were somewhat snarky, I'd like to hear your evidence that "the American people" are supporting the "billionaire welfare class". It's the first time I've ever heard the table turned like that and would like to learn more.
Um, I guess you were frozen in cryostasis pre-2007 and missed the entire financial "crisis" which involved something on the order of $14 trillion (i.e. 1 year's GDP or > the entire national debt) was funneled in the form of free money, loan guarantees, etc. into the pockets of Wall Street and the rich. Welcome, and prepare to be surprised at our new president's middle name and how crazy Mel Gibson really is.
America already totally forgot about that. All I read now is people blaming overpaid union workers (what few there are of those) for our government financial woes. Lobbyists? Bailouts? Corrupt contractors? Endless wars to make the world safe for international corporations? Nah, it's the unionists who are bankrupting us!
(I'm not necessarily that big of a fan of public sector unions... just saying there are much fatter pigs at the trough.)