Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
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Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
1–10 of 41 posts
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#2Why am I not surprised?
This can happen to anyone. I accidentally shifted into reverse instead of drive and backed into the corner of my parent's garage. And when I saw I was backing up (slowly) I slammed on the gas. I managed to hit the brake fast enough to avoid damaging my SUV but not the garage.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#3Not too surprised either.
But one thing I never understood is how a stuck pedal (one that's actually stuck) can lead to a car accelerating out of control. How could it possibly prevent you from taking the car out of gear, rolling to a stop and turning the thing off? Does it actually affect the ability to shift? Or are drivers just panicking and being dumb? Or do people who own a fancy automatic Lexus actually not know what the "N" on their shifter means?? I sincerely hope it's not the latter.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#4Not too surprised either. But one thing I never understood is how a stuck pedal (one that's actually stuck) can lead to a car accelerating out of control. How could it possibly prevent you from taking the car out of gear, rolling to a stop and turning the thing off? Does it actually affect the ability to shift? Or are drivers just panicking and being dumb? Or do people who own a fancy automatic Lexus actually not kno…
In at least some incidents, it was impossible to change into neutral(owing to some electronic failsafe) and not at all obvious how to switch the ignition off. Non-obvious is bad bad bad when your throttle is suddenly stuck wide open.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#5Not too surprised either. But one thing I never understood is how a stuck pedal (one that's actually stuck) can lead to a car accelerating out of control. How could it possibly prevent you from taking the car out of gear, rolling to a stop and turning the thing off? Does it actually affect the ability to shift? Or are drivers just panicking and being dumb? Or do people who own a fancy automatic Lexus actually not kno…
The article says the data recorders indicated the brakes were not applied at all but the accelerator pedal was floored. In other words, people thinking they're standing on the brakes when really they're standing on the gas pedal.
A person comfortable with technology will react to a surprising result by immediately changing what he's doing on the controls to search for cause and effect; for those who have difficulty with technology it is because they can't think scientifically and react by trying to do more of what wasn't working.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#6I wonder if the same sensors that provide the log data also control the engine. In that case, it would be impossible to distinguish a sensor glitch from user error by purely relying on in-system logging.
This sort of thing happens all the time when debugging production servers. The same system usually provides the control signal and the diagnostic data. So what initially looks sane, if you keep investigate it, can lead you to a real bug.
I've been pretty skeptical about the whole Toyota stuck accelerator brouhaha myself but this development does not necessarily rule out a design flaw.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#7I'd love to see some statistics on the number of these incidents that have occurred with Toyotas versus other makes as a proportion of the total fleet.
These incidents happen all the time, and it almost always turns out that the driver was standing on the accelerator instead of the brake. (Naturally they adamantly deny it - if they'd thought they were pressing the accelerator they would have stopped, after all. Everyone underestimates how much your brain can play tricks on you in this situation.) Of course that does not eliminate design flaws as a cause - for example in the Audi case the pedals were too close together.
Ever since this all blew up I've suspected that it's quite possible the floor mat recall may have simply brought a lot of cases out of the woodwork that are actually not inconsistent with the normal "background" level of such accidents.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#8Not too surprised either. But one thing I never understood is how a stuck pedal (one that's actually stuck) can lead to a car accelerating out of control. How could it possibly prevent you from taking the car out of gear, rolling to a stop and turning the thing off? Does it actually affect the ability to shift? Or are drivers just panicking and being dumb? Or do people who own a fancy automatic Lexus actually not kno…
The article says the data recorders indicated the brakes were not applied at all but the accelerator pedal was floored. In other words, people thinking they're standing on the brakes when really they're standing on the gas pedal. A person comfortable with technology will react to a surprising result by immediately changing what he's doing on the controls to search for cause and effect; for those who have difficulty w…
I long to live in a society where "difficulty with technology...because they can't think scientifically" is seen as a disability!
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#9I wonder if the same sensors that provide the log data also control the engine. In that case, it would be impossible to distinguish a sensor glitch from user error by purely relying on in-system logging. This sort of thing happens all the time when debugging production servers. The same system usually provides the control signal and the diagnostic data. So what initially looks sane, if you keep investigate it, can le…
I have to agree, the fact that this is a WSJ article makes me curious about the possibility that this is a Toyota-paid-for damage control article. Especially due to the FRBNY/WSJ editing scandal exposed by ZeroHedge last week. I expect this is a PR attempt by Toyota to discredit the lawsuits in the eyes of the general public and counter their dropping sales figures.
Unless this diagnostic system is completely separate from the drive-by-wire system, this isn't pertinent information.
Re: Crash Data Suggest Driver Error in Toyota Accidents
#10The NHTSA spokeswoman said the agency wouldn't comment on its Toyota probe until a broader study is completed in conjunction with NASA, which is expected to take months.
NASA? really?
They then went on to mention 'the National Academy of Sciences', so I'll assume it's a misprint.