When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
1–10 of 362 posts
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#2I always wonder when they say 'Same work' do they mean same output, or same job title? I've seen this argued both ways in the US and have no idea what to believe anymore.
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#3When adjusted for factors such as hiatuses for raising kids, the answer is 'no.'
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#4> Although the average woman’s salary in Britain is 29% lower than the average man’s, the bulk of that gap results from differences in rank within companies, firms’ overall compensation rates and the nature of the tasks a job requires.
If Software Engineer II makes less than Software Engineer III, and women of equivalent skill and experience to men have a significantly higher chance of being Software Engineer II than III, then the wage gap exists for "the same work".
This is particularly difficult to measure, but still possible with proper diligence, because rank throughout a career is a compounding advantage.
P.S. disable javascript to get past the paywall
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#5Relevant remark by John Carmack (ignore the poor YouTube title): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzmbW4ueGdg
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#6I always wonder when they say 'Same work' do they mean same output, or same job title? I've seen this argued both ways in the US and have no idea what to believe anymore.
The article uses the definition that "same rank" == "same work", which is ridiculous for many reasons, one in particular being that title often corresponds to a pay level for an area of work covered by a ladder of such titles so by definition it will be true that such a gap is insignificant.
> According to data for 8.7m employees worldwide gathered by Korn Ferry, a consultancy, women in Britain make just 1% less than men who have the same function and level at the same employer.
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#7When adjusted for factors such as hiatuses for raising kids, the answer is 'no.'
Why don't men take these hiatuses?
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#8This rigged need to prove the same work is being paid the same always rings pretty hollow for me.
In my first corporate job I was the most technical employee by far, I did the work of far senior roles because my managers were wise to use a lot of my technical skill to get complex work done all the while having HR tell me I didn't have enough years and experience to have the higher paying job title.
Just because someone has the job title they have and the pay to go with it often has nothing to do with the work they do.
In both directions.
Re: When all job differences are accounted for, the pay gap almost disappears
#9Generally speaking the problem isn't that individuals get paid less.
It's systemic issues - which are harder to fix.
For example: women as a whole are less likely to be in higher paying jobs in STEM roles. Or CEOs. Or high level Politicians. Why? Multiple reasons but the overall point is there is institutional and social pressure (mostly unconscious or learned) for women to avoid those fields.
So the average gets lowered.
This is also true of socially acceptable behaviors causing issues: women are usually less comfortable pushing for raises for example. Or negotiating for a higher initial salary after an interview.
So the average gets lower.
Then we get to what is the more contentious issue (at least… in places like HN) - community behavior. It's inarguable that many STEM fields have a very hostile default behavior that women (even if it's not directed at them) find unpleasant enough to avoid. The level of drop outs of women in tech due to this is very high.
This is the point that usually is the "sexism in tech" conversation.
But arguably that's just a symptom of the previous problems.