Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
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Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
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Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#2The bootcamps of the future will focus on either the experienced developers wanting to learn a new language/skill quickly. The structure will be like an extended conference where everyone attends presentations and gets excited for a few days and then everyone goes home. This will be followed up with an online course teaching the basics that will allow everyone to work at there own pace. A few tests and assignments will assign grades. A hackton will be planned where everyone will build a product using there new skills. Teams will be assigned based on grades to make things fair.
Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#3I think bootcamps arose as a result of an industry-wide PR move to give the illusion of a worker shortage, done in an effort to push more people into the tech industry and increase the labor pool significantly, thus pushing wage growth below inflation. With the labor market finally actually tightening, and with the PR move not working as well as was hoped, people are starting to see that the virtue signalling offered by bootcamps aren't as necessary as they thought.
Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#4Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#5I would suggest instead that we focus on two other problems with bootcamps, one mentioned in the article and one not:
* As the article suggests, bootcamps are probably not as effective at placing graduates as they'd like us to believe. There is a stigma to bootcamps, which is telling, because there's no such stigma for self-taught programmers. That may be because bootcamps aren't effective, or it may be because of correctable market inefficiencies that someone will make money arbitraging out. I'd guess it's a little of both.
* It's probably not easy to staff a bootcamp. They don't pay instructors particularly well. If you can effectively train 70% of a cohort of students well enough to secure professional employment, there's a lot of other stuff you can do in this field. To make the business work, bootcamps have to balance the willingness of students to pay with the salary demands of instructors, while retaining enough to grow. Maybe that's just hard to do.
Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#6While I understand that the majority of our greatest thinkers can attribute the University of Phoenix to their sudden rise from obscurity, is their any sort of data available displaying how well they educate their students? I have seen far too many students graduate from university with computer science degree, with little to no understanding of the real world, or anything other than the concepts required to learn to program with java(exaggeration), but I can only imagine what sort of education another 'for-profit university' provides all the kids who want to become cool, hip, programmers and make 250k for browsing reddit remotely.
My guess is they spend most of their time/money figuring out how to locate and market to unemployed/underemployed Americans with access to student loans, and little certainty or direction in their lives; while spending zero time coming up with a metric via quiz/survey to determine good candidates for programming jobs, as that would likely reduce profits for said for-profit university.
I don't know much about these bootcamps, but I'm sure some of them do great things, however, I don't think the author of this post considered any of the likely relevant factors to the conclusion they are drawing about a possible trend here. Quality front page nothingburger rambling.
Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#7First, to say there's no skills gap is insanity. I refuse to believe anyone in the industry actually believes that - even the worst bootcamps are placing folks, they just place folks that are not well prepared and shift the burden of training to the company. I'm constantly blown away that some of those people get jobs, and they somehow keep them, as the companies just start training from almost scratch. That really sucks, and a lot of companies are (rightly) wary of that, and a lot of companies throw bootcamp resumes straight in the trash can, but there are enough that won't that it doesn't matter.
Don't get me wrong, most of the skills gap is for capable engineers, and if you understand data structures, algorithms, architecture, memory management, etc. you'll get a job very quickly. We're talking within a week. But most bootcamp grads don't know any of that stuff, so the market is flooded with junior rails devs. (And even those folks still slowly get OK jobs).
There are audited, standardized reports from an organization called CIRR. Look at them - you'll see 90%+ placement rates, audited and from third parties. Granted there are a lot of lies on the home pages of bootcamp grad websites, but the perception HN has is much worse than reality at the good bootcamps.
I know the internal financials of quite a few bootcamps, and most are making a killing. It's really not hard to make money by charging $10,000/head so long as you keep demand. Iron Yard got out ahead of its skis and tried to open 16 locations at once. I have no idea what happened to Dev Bootcamp but the only way they could be losing money is if their expenses were absurd. They were bought for $80 million. I think the most likely scenario is the acquirer tried to change things up and killed everything.
Re: Why Are Coding Bootcamps Going Out of Business?
#8A 250k Haskell programming job in SFBA is prima facie evidence of a "skills gap". The law of supply and demand says that's how you evaluate an inadequate number of available programmers. It's facile to suggest there's an adequate labor supply because employers can acquire developers simply by paying 5x the national median income. I would suggest instead that we focus on two other problems with bootcamps, one mentione…