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Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

jonobacon.com

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Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#2
I really don't understand the drive to make GNU/Linux a "consumer operating system." The consumers don't care and are happy with absolutely awful software. Shiny GUI toolkits that are a huge pain to develop for, and non-free software gos against what the people who use GNU/Linux now want. That's why ubuntu's unity stuff failed, because they chased after users who don't care and alienated the only ones that might use their product.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#3
post #2

I really don't understand the drive to make GNU/Linux a "consumer operating system." The consumers don't care and are happy with absolutely awful software. Shiny GUI toolkits that are a huge pain to develop for, and non-free software gos against what the people who use GNU/Linux now want. That's why ubuntu's unity stuff failed, because they chased after users who don't care and alienated the only ones that might use…

It's because Linux desktop users want to be able to use consumer software, and the only way they're going to get it is if Linux becomes a consumer operating system

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#4
post #2

I really don't understand the drive to make GNU/Linux a "consumer operating system." The consumers don't care and are happy with absolutely awful software. Shiny GUI toolkits that are a huge pain to develop for, and non-free software gos against what the people who use GNU/Linux now want. That's why ubuntu's unity stuff failed, because they chased after users who don't care and alienated the only ones that might use…

> Shiny GUI toolkits that are a huge pain to develop for, and non-free software gos against what the people who use GNU/Linux now want.

This is a yuuuge generalization. There are many Linux folks who want a slick consumer experience and there are many that want ratpoison and vim. :-)

This idea doesn't take away from the requirements that people have for a non-consumer desktop.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#5
I was rolling my eyes reading this and then hit this, which is the real value of the article IMO:

> few Linux platforms (if any?) had taken a series whack at building a consumer grade app and developer experience. We tried, it was not successful, and instead of digging up the past I would rather ensure we can inform the future.

"What not to do, and how not to do it" are at least one valid take away from that whole era.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#6
It is foolish to pursue consumer space in this age. The muggles want mobile.

This is a wonderful opportunity for us original computer nerds... with the mainstream leaving for their terrible mobile devices computers can finally go back to being tools for power users. The appliance-like expectations of the mainstream was the worst thing that ever happened to traditional computing.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#7
I would like to see the main distros collaborate on/ invest resources in an IDE for GNOME or w/e desktop environment they choose to standardize on. Seems like there is one already but I don't know how actively it is being developed (https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Builder).

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#8
I still think the whole Linux Desktop problem can be summarized in one sentence:

There is a lack of a simple desktop app development environment.

Yes there is GTK and yes there QT. But regardless of how much people may hate Xcode, it allowed people to create solid desktop applications in a fraction of the time that was needed to do the same in either GTK or QT. It's better documented, it's smoother, it's easier to structure your application in terms of the framework rather than programming language.

The whole thing is a little like the Rails vs. Flask or Go argument. Yes Flask is really cool, and in Go you can build really cool stuff and it's modular, you select a muxer and stitch it together, it does more requests per second, but if you just want to bash out a quick web application you're better off picking the first option.

The app store is hard argument is so far down the line... If you look at all the things Apple did before they pushed their app store it almost doesn't matter.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#9
post #8

I still think the whole Linux Desktop problem can be summarized in one sentence: There is a lack of a simple desktop app development environment. Yes there is GTK and yes there QT. But regardless of how much people may hate Xcode, it allowed people to create solid desktop applications in a fraction of the time that was needed to do the same in either GTK or QT. It's better documented, it's smoother, it's easier to st…

I agree. I commented earlier about how I think they should pool their resources to create an Xcode for linux. Seems like one kind of already exists (https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Builder) but I don't how much is being invested in it. And honestly I don't really care that much about the language or the UI framework so long as they just pick one.

Re: Consolidating the Linux Desktop App Story: An Idea

#10
post #8

I still think the whole Linux Desktop problem can be summarized in one sentence: There is a lack of a simple desktop app development environment. Yes there is GTK and yes there QT. But regardless of how much people may hate Xcode, it allowed people to create solid desktop applications in a fraction of the time that was needed to do the same in either GTK or QT. It's better documented, it's smoother, it's easier to st…

I agree. I commented earlier about how I think they should pool their resources to create an Xcode for linux. Seems like one kind of already exists ( https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Builder ) but I don't how much is being invested in it. And honestly I don't really care that much about the language or the UI framework so long as they just pick one.

That looks like glib. Which is kind of nasty in my opinion. At some point they pushed for Vala, it makes the whole thing a bit more pleasent. But personally I had a feeling it was on life support the entire time. Some bindings were plain broken and impossible to fix, interop had really crappy documentation. At some point I just gave up.

(I'm mixing IDE with language/lib right now, but for Gnome it does go hand in hand IMHO)

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