Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
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Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
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Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#2Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#3Not that I don't get what he's saying, and I do get that existing and well proven systems aren't sexy, but I feel like either of those is going to be an easier sell, and a much faster implementation, than an underground system. There's infrastructure down there! That's what "infra" means. Easier not to have to work around that, if you can.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#4You are spending your time getting things into space and your CEO is literally heading in the opposite direction.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#5Light rail solves urban congestion, too, and a city that doesn't already have a subway isn't all that likely also to be so densely involute that rights of way can't be secured for the trackage. Elevated electric trams are a thing, too, and require a much smaller ground footprint. Not that I don't get what he's saying, and I do get that existing and well proven systems aren't sexy, but I feel like either of those is g…
>The social and physical construction of suburban America really was quite complex. It was a very elaborate system, and clearly a massive social engineering project that has changed US society enormously. [27] Incidentally, I don’t have a personal objection to suburbs, in fact I live in one, but suburbanization is a different question. [28] It starts back in the 1940s with a literal conspiracy. I mean a conspiracy that went to court. The conspirators got a minor pat on the wrist however.
>They were General Motors, Standard Oil of California and, I think, Firestone Rubber. The origins of suburbia reveal an attempt to take over a fairly efficient mass-transportation system in parts of California — the electric railways in Los Angeles and the like — and destroy them so as to shift energy use to fossil fuels and increase consumer demand for rubber, automobiles and trucks and so on. [29] It was a literal conspiracy. It went to court. The courts fined the corporations $5000, or something like that, probably equivalent to the cost of their victory dinner.[30]
>But what happened in California started a process that then expanded — and in many ways. It included the interstate highway system. That was presented as part of the defense against the Russians. It was launched under the Interstate Defense Highway Act of 1956, and was intended to facilitate the movement of people and goods, troops and arms, and, allegedly, to prevent overpopulation in specific areas that could become the focus of nuclear attack. [31] The slogan of defense is the standard way of inducing the taxpayer to pay the cost of the next stage of the hi-tech economy of course.[32] That’s true whether it be computers, the Internet or, as in this case, a car-based transportation system.[33]
>From the late 1940s, into and through the 50s, there developed a complex interaction between federal government, state and local government, real-estate interests, commercial interests and court decisions, which had the effect of undermining the mass transit system across the country. It was pretty efficient in certain areas. If you go back a century ago for example, it was possible to travel all around New England on electric railways. The first chapter of E. L. Doctorow’s Ragtime documents it.[34] Subsequently, we saw the elimination of the mass transport system in favor of fossil fuel use, automobiles, roads and airplanes, which are also an offshoot of federal government.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#6Light rail solves urban congestion, too, and a city that doesn't already have a subway isn't all that likely also to be so densely involute that rights of way can't be secured for the trackage. Elevated electric trams are a thing, too, and require a much smaller ground footprint. Not that I don't get what he's saying, and I do get that existing and well proven systems aren't sexy, but I feel like either of those is g…
There's reason why the US stopped investing in light rail. >The social and physical construction of suburban America really was quite complex. It was a very elaborate system, and clearly a massive social engineering project that has changed US society enormously. [27] Incidentally, I don’t have a personal objection to suburbs, in fact I live in one, but suburbanization is a different question. [28] It starts back in…
It's not my impression that light rail is done having regularly used the system
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#7I thought the current thinking was that building more roads means that there will be more roads to use, and therefore more cars on the road. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#8This is a good idea, and I like to watch Elon be ambitious, but it's probably pretty annoying to work at SpaceX right now. One day you show up to work and, where you used to park your car, there is a giant hole in the ground. It's there because the CEO of the company you work for, who is already splitting his time between two companies, wants to put some of his energy towards a third unrelated company. You are spendi…
On the other hand, boring technology is almost certainly going to play a key role in the colonisation of Mars.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's reason why the US stopped investing in light rail. >The social and physical construction of suburban America really was quite complex. It was a very elaborate system, and clearly a massive social engineering project that has changed US society enormously. [27] Incidentally, I don’t have a personal objection to suburbs, in fact I live in one, but suburbanization is a different question. [28] It starts back in…
The DFW area has built 90+ miles of light rail in the last 20 years (that's just under the total amount for the Bay Area which had older systems), and it is still expanding. It's not my impression that light rail is done having regularly used the system
And as we leave fossil fuels behind, the incentives will realign around what some forward-looking people (and a few contrary oafs like me, too) are already doing - that is, using public transit for the bulk of daily travel, and keeping a car or using hire cars only on those occasions when public transit isn't well suited to a need for heavy haulage, or close timing, or the like.
And, honestly, I can't wait. I'm really sick and tired of people, in some cases colleagues, assuming that because I take the light rail, I must be impoverished, or barred from driving for medical or other reasons, or possessed of an unusually high tolerance of danger, or whatever.
Not that they're not well-meaning, and I do appreciate them looking out - but I find it an irritating set of assumptions to overcome, especially when it takes a solid year to get it through people's heads that yes I commute as I do by choice and preference and no I do not need anyone to organize any car pools and yes I own a car and no I'm not suffering some kind of privation that forces me to take the train every day.
Ironically, what really put it over was an offhand joke I made during one of these conversations, to the effect that it saves on gym membership because, when your commute involves three miles on foot, every day is leg day. Why it should be that that'd get the point across and put an end to the questions, I've no idea, but it works, so I'll take it. It'll be nice to see the use of public transit normalized a bit, among professionals, if only to make one a little less odd-man-out to use it.
Re: Elon Musk is boring a tunnel to skirt gridlock
#10I thought the current thinking was that building more roads means that there will be more roads to use, and therefore more cars on the road. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
One could also use tunnels to build subways and presumably Hyperloops. I wonder, though, about why big infrastructure projects so horrendously expensive, in America in particular. There are developers, planners, consultants, politicians, unions, contractors, sub contractors, sub-sub contractors, and they're all out for all they can get. There are lawyers every step of the way. Nobody communicates well. Small hang-ups at the wrong place send the entire operation grinding to a halt. Can this be fixed? Is a big dumb tunnel digging operation the point of entry for infrastructure construction disruption in America? That would be nice. We're good at moving the bits around. We suck at atoms.
Or is Musk setting himself up to be the next Robert Moses? Someone with the capability to move mountains, but not terribly discriminating about whether or not a given mountain should be moved. Musk doesn't talk like someone who's ever had a discussion with an Urban planner about the real reasons as to why our transportation problems are problems.