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Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

lists.swift.org

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Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#3

Post by darksaints »

It's interesting, and I think it makes sense to me. I started playing with Rust around 0.6 and the focus of the language seemed very different from today. It seemed there was a lot of focus on the more ML-ish aspects of its roots, such as the module system. The language also had a convincing future story for both green threads and garbage collection.

While I wouldn't say that it wasn't a systems language, I would say that it was far more focused on higher level coding than the current rust is. Which is fine IMO...the world can benefit from a new safe low level language far more than it needs a new application-level language. But for someone who really liked the early ideas of rust, swift makes a lot of sense as a substitute.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#4

Post by alrs »

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla.

(EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#6

Post by sfilargi »

darksaints wrote: post #3

It's interesting, and I think it makes sense to me. I started playing with Rust around 0.6 and the focus of the language seemed very different from today. It seemed there was a lot of focus on the more ML-ish aspects of its roots, such as the module system. The language also had a convincing future story for both green threads and garbage collection. While I wouldn't say that it wasn't a systems language, I would say…

> It seemed there was a lot of focus on the more ML-ish aspects of its roots, such as the module system. The language also had a convincing future story for both green threads and garbage collection.

So, OCaml?

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#7

Post by AsyncAwait »

alrs wrote: post #4

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla. (EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

Can you share some specifics? What exactly have they deprecated?

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#8

Post by darksaints »

sfilargi wrote: post #6
darksaints wrote: post #3

It's interesting, and I think it makes sense to me. I started playing with Rust around 0.6 and the focus of the language seemed very different from today. It seemed there was a lot of focus on the more ML-ish aspects of its roots, such as the module system. The language also had a convincing future story for both green threads and garbage collection. While I wouldn't say that it wasn't a systems language, I would say…

> It seemed there was a lot of focus on the more ML-ish aspects of its roots, such as the module system. The language also had a convincing future story for both green threads and garbage collection. So, OCaml?

Yes. In fact, the original compiler was written in OCaml. I would say the original intent was to be a lower level OCaml with optional safe control over allocation behavior and safe parallelism.

I think he would probably have preferred OCaml syntax too. Notice some of the idioms, and even the capitalization/underscore norms (UpperCamelCase for types, snake_case for functions) are very similar to OCaml. But C syntax provides a theoretical adoption benefit, so I think he was willing to deal with that.

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#9

Post by steveklabnik »

alrs wrote: post #4

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla. (EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

Rust is a community project that Mozilla contributes heavily to, rather than the other way around. The sets of people working on those decisions for Firefox and the people guiding Rust's development are disjoint, and all major changes to Rust must go through our consensus-based, community-driven process, so even if Mozilla _were_ to try to declare that Rust should do something against the wishes of the community, they couldn't. It wouldn't work.

(I am a Mozilla employee working on Rust.)

Re: Rust creator Graydon Hoare is now at Apple working on Swift

#10

Post by binarycrusader »

alrs wrote: post #4

My frustration with Mozilla deprecating everything I need in Firefox has made it impossible for me to trust them as stewards of a language. Hopefully this contributes to a decoupling of Rust from Mozilla. (EDIT: Am I incorrect that they are deprecating the things I need in Firefox, am I incorrect that I don't trust them, or am I wrong to have hope for a good outcome?)

Graydon stepped down as lead in 2013 from rust, so I don't see how that would have any bearing, and as brson said, Graydon has been on Swift for a while now.
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