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Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

theguardian.com

1–10 of 26 posts

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#2
Its all very well getting hot under the collar about the influence peddling of a charmed circle, but I have yet to see a plausible alternative organisation. Every system of government comes down to Dunbar's Number (the size of a group who can reasonably expect to know each other), and the unavoidable fact that people in charge of allocating resources will tend to allocate as much as they can to themselves. Attempts to disrupt this, such as sunshine laws and term limits, also have a tendency to disrupt effective governance as well, because people who can't negotiate a compromise in secret become hostage to various special interest groups who will reject any move towards compromise. If nobody can compromise then nothing gets done.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#4
"...what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that."

The author can't possibly be this naive. I am not surprised at all; in fact, I'm glad that this is being aired. Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan, but it shouldn't be news to anybody that there is plenty of money propping up the Democratic Party as well. Obama did not get elected on hope alone.

I personally don't have serious qualms with a Jeffersonian paternalistic republic, so long as I have the power to vote the "parents" out of power when they fail to represent my interests.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#5

Its all very well getting hot under the collar about the influence peddling of a charmed circle, but I have yet to see a plausible alternative organisation. Every system of government comes down to Dunbar's Number (the size of a group who can reasonably expect to know each other), and the unavoidable fact that people in charge of allocating resources will tend to allocate as much as they can to themselves. Attempts t…

To tack onto this, this same "everybody knows each other behind closed doors" is actually applauded in the U.S. Senate. Collegiality leads to measured politics and compromise, i.e. getting shit done.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#6
This definitely highlights the importance of networking. I used to hate the concept that it's all about "who you know", but at some point I accepted it - it is way too common a trope to just be a toxic symptom of one particular culture.

None of what we see here is surprising. People with a lot of money are spending it on what they want, often doing what they can to make the world a better place (at least for them and their friends). They work to resolve issues; if I was a billionaire to the Democrats, I would be pretty upset that a Democrat was trashing billionaire donors - don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Having been in something resembling government in college (elected + appointed members) it is easy to see why all of this happens. It is really hard to make an election truly about what the people wants because the people typically aren't well informed, don't have good voter turnout, and don't make rational decisions. That leads to lots of tricks for gaming the system, which then leads to the need to do backdoor power brokerage and of course interest in protecting what is already in place. Incompetent politicians look bad enough to lay people - imagine being in government and then seeing people you've worked with for years replaced by them.

If you've gotten to this point and you still hate the system and think it sucks, I sympathize. Ultimately though, what you're seeing here is the best effort of a group of people to do the best with what they have, which is a fundamentally broken system. A first step towards fixing it might be making election results not a product of gerrymandering, targeted get out the vote campaigns, and media buys.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#7
Also, second comment: I would be pissed if someone leakes my emails to the public. I don't care who you are, that is such an invasion of privacy that it does feel cringey reading the emails even though they are now public domain.

I was going to say that you should never put sensitive information in (unsecured) email because of things like this. "Never write anything you wouldn't want printed on the cover of the NY Times" is sage advice I've heard in the past. Unfortunately, the standard of what is acceptable is quite subjective - I don't see anything objectionable in Podesta's emails. If I were him I would see them as innocuous - and yet, here he his, taking a serious hit from it all.

Now, the question is, where the heck are the Republican email leaks? At the very least, it would be interesting to compare...

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#8
What's really troubling to me isn't so much that these guys send each other emails asking for favors. I am a lowly engineer and I have been asked if I would consider hiring someone who is just finish school.

That's just human nature, people will ask for shit. They will take care of their own when they can and if there is no push back.

What troubles me the most is that these emails were hacked by a foreign government are slowly being trickled out and are having a massive impact in our election. This should concern every single person living in the US. I don't know but to me the dirtiest thing about all of this is how these emails were obtained and who is leaking them. I just can't get over that fact.

That should concern republicans and democrats. Their content is something I can overlook at this point because my mind keeps going back to who obtained them and for what reason.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#9
post #7

Also, second comment: I would be pissed if someone leakes my emails to the public. I don't care who you are, that is such an invasion of privacy that it does feel cringey reading the emails even though they are now public domain. I was going to say that you should never put sensitive information in (unsecured) email because of things like this. "Never write anything you wouldn't want printed on the cover of the NY Ti…

Podesta is part of the opaque political machine that has largely betrayed the American people. I have no sympathy when, as a last ditch resort to restore a semblance of accountability, a person working on a campaign for a public office gets their emails served as public record. Especially when Americans have been denied their fight to FOIA Hillary's emails during her SoS tenure by her use of a private email server.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#10

What's really troubling to me isn't so much that these guys send each other emails asking for favors. I am a lowly engineer and I have been asked if I would consider hiring someone who is just finish school. That's just human nature, people will ask for shit. They will take care of their own when they can and if there is no push back. What troubles me the most is that these emails were hacked by a foreign government…

Right, corruption is not a problem as long as it stays secret? And they keep telling us "if you got nothing to hide..." WTF?! Who cares where the truth comes from. Shooting the messenger is old as the hills if its something you don't like. I hope every one hacks everyone else and get all their shit public. The the people of all nations see the crap their leaders and the elite have gotten away with..
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