Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
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Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#2Can anyone provide a TLDR? All I can see in the conclusion is: "We expect to develop a prototype of a blockchain-based system with the raffle protocol in the near future.". So their alternative to reaching consensus is a raffle protocol? And in raffle protocol section I read "among a set
of eligible agents" and "relying on a trusted “global clock” service". Seems quite centralized if you ask me.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#3I wonder how this relates to ethereum's Casper proof of stake mechanism.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#4On page 4 the paper states
"if we outline a scenario in which Bitcoin reaches the same value of the current global fiat money supply, supposing that the energy consumption of global Bitcoin would grow linearly with its value"
This supposition is highly unrealistic, since the scenario will likely play out over many decades, during which there will be many block reward halvings (once every 4 years), which will severely dampen the energy consumption.
Viewed differently, each halving allows the value of bitcoin to double while maintaining the same energy consumption. At least until the reward drops to a level comparable to the transaction fees...
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#5Can anyone provide a TLDR? All I can see in the conclusion is: "We expect to develop a prototype of a blockchain-based system with the raffle protocol in the near future.". So their alternative to reaching consensus is a raffle protocol? And in raffle protocol section I read "among a set of eligible agents" and "relying on a trusted “global clock” service". Seems quite centralized if you ask me.
Sounds like a hybrid pos with a centralized key giveaway
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#6On page 4 the paper states "if we outline a scenario in which Bitcoin reaches the same value of the current global fiat money supply, supposing that the energy consumption of global Bitcoin would grow linearly with its value" This supposition is highly unrealistic, since the scenario will likely play out over many decades, during which there will be many block reward halvings (once every 4 years), which will severely…
Why do you believe that? The last couple of halvings appeared to have little effect on the global hashrate, and so had little effect on the energy consumption.
The vast majority of Bitcoin mining is done by professionals. I doubt many people buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to mine simply for fun. Miners are looking to profit.
People will mine the coin up until the point at which it becomes unprofitable. The cost of mining is more or less the cost of electricity (you can amortise the cost of the mining hardware over time). It makes sense to mine when the value of a coin is higher than the cost of the power used in mining it. Electricity cost is proportional to energy consumption. Hence, Bitcoin's energy consumption is proportional to its value.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#7On page 4 the paper states "if we outline a scenario in which Bitcoin reaches the same value of the current global fiat money supply, supposing that the energy consumption of global Bitcoin would grow linearly with its value" This supposition is highly unrealistic, since the scenario will likely play out over many decades, during which there will be many block reward halvings (once every 4 years), which will severely…
Why do you believe that? The last couple of halvings appeared to have little effect on the global hashrate, and so had little effect on the energy consumption. The vast majority of Bitcoin mining is done by professionals. I doubt many people buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to mine simply for fun. Miners are looking to profit. People will mine the coin up until the point at which it becomes unprofitable. Th…
Well a halving halves as much value you get per kwh of energy spent if the hashrate stays the same. So it will eventually hit a point where a halving will make a lot of miners unprofitable and the overall hashrate will slow down until it reaches a balance again.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#8On page 4 the paper states "if we outline a scenario in which Bitcoin reaches the same value of the current global fiat money supply, supposing that the energy consumption of global Bitcoin would grow linearly with its value" This supposition is highly unrealistic, since the scenario will likely play out over many decades, during which there will be many block reward halvings (once every 4 years), which will severely…
Why do you believe that? The last couple of halvings appeared to have little effect on the global hashrate, and so had little effect on the energy consumption. The vast majority of Bitcoin mining is done by professionals. I doubt many people buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to mine simply for fun. Miners are looking to profit. People will mine the coin up until the point at which it becomes unprofitable. Th…
> Miners are looking to profit.
This is true in a sense, but a majority of the mining is done by Chinese pools which do sell at a loss to the electricity costs even there. The losses are acceptable because it is used as a way to get currency out of the country.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#9The paper is badly written, and so I haven't invested the effort needed to clearly understand what they're proposing, but I see no indication that the authors understand the nature of the difficult problem solved by what we are coming to call Satoshi Consensus. Until they can give a clear description of the problem and why we struggled to solve it unsuccessfully for 15 years (to the point that most of us dismissed Bitcoin when it came out) I don't think it's worth listening to their proposals for solutions.
Re: Beyond Bitcoin – Part II: Blockchain-based systems without mining [pdf]
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you believe that? The last couple of halvings appeared to have little effect on the global hashrate, and so had little effect on the energy consumption. The vast majority of Bitcoin mining is done by professionals. I doubt many people buy thousands of dollars worth of hardware to mine simply for fun. Miners are looking to profit. People will mine the coin up until the point at which it becomes unprofitable. Th…
> Miners are looking to profit. This is true in a sense, but a majority of the mining is done by Chinese pools which do sell at a loss to the electricity costs even there. The losses are acceptable because it is used as a way to get currency out of the country.
Chinese capital controls seem to be distorting all kinds of markets. Around here (SoCal) I've heard of Chinese "investors" buying houses at 5-10% over asking sight unseen and not caring about possible depreciation because it's a way to get money out of China. Losses as high as 25% are apparently acceptable to some people looking to get past capital controls.