The Hostile Email Landscape

#1

Post by jodyribton » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:23 PM UTC

The Hostile Email Landscape
liminality.xyz

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#2

Post by grey-area » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:41 PM UTC

Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#3

Post by jimktrains2 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #2

Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?

What's that even mean?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#4

Post by jimktrains2 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:45 PM UTC

Email has been the my last hold out from switch away from gapps completely. I don't want to have to deal with any of this, especially as I do business communication with clients via it. Email wasn't suppose to be like this, and there has to be a better way to enable non-giants to successfully deliver email.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#5

Post by gruez » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:47 PM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #3

grey-area wrote: post #2

Perhaps the problem here is that there is no verified identity for email servers?

What's that even mean?

something like EV certificates for smtp servers?

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#6

Post by drumdance » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

Surprised he didn't mention third party reputation providers such at Return Path.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#7

Post by cm2187 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:49 PM UTC

The problem is not so much the attitude of the big guys. It is that smtp is fundamentally broken. we need a better mail protocol that ensures: 1. Traffic always encrypted and content always signed 2. Guarantee that the sender is who it claims he is 3. Decorrelating the email from the domain, a lot of users are prisoners of their current provider just because the address they gave everyone ends with the provider's domain name, very much like it is very hard to switch bank accounts 4. Ability to provide disposable adresses which can be deleted when spammed

3 and 4 would require a sort of token system

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#8

Post by ryan-c » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:51 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #5

jimktrains2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that even mean?

something like EV certificates for smtp servers?

Certificates for SMTP servers are meaningless without DNSSEC because crossdomain email servers are a thing.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#9

Post by karlshea » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:51 PM UTC

Having run my own email server about a decade ago I can kind of understand why they are just rejecting things. Dealing with spam for even just a handful of domains was a nightmare.

Re: The Hostile Email Landscape

#10

Post by seiji » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 7:52 PM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #4

Email has been the my last hold out from switch away from gapps completely. I don't want to have to deal with any of this, especially as I do business communication with clients via it. Email wasn't suppose to be like this, and there has to be a better way to enable non-giants to successfully deliver email.

Joke answer: the blockchain!

Real answer: It comes down to trust (duh). But, how do we manage trust online? How do we manage trust in real life? Real life trust is through association of groups. But, groups online are meaningless. A "gmail user" doesn't belong to a community, they belong to The Nation of Google.

How do we break down online identities into manageable, trustable communities? How do we bootstrap new communities into the system so we don't end up with a pre-selected list of blessed communities while others languish in obscurity?

Open questions, no answers, and if you say Facebook you have to run 20 laps and give me 1000 pushups.