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Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

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Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#91

Post by s73v3r »

rilita wrote: post #72
mathgeek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

I would never hire someone with this perspective. Quality of the position and the ability to enjoy it and work hard without stressing is way more important than pay in my book.

And I would never work for someone with your perspective, cause you're just looking for a sucker to lowball and overwork.

And pay level is a huge contributor to stress levels.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#92

Post by s73v3r »

rilita wrote: post #80
rfrey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an insult to ask what the pay is? Do you think the recruiter asks the employer? If so, there are two possible reasons: because it's pertinent information for candidates, or because the recruiter gets paid based on that info. If the former, no insult. If the latter, the recruiter is in familiar territory if so "insulted" by the candidate.

Yes it is. Many companies doing direct hire ( going past recruiters entirely ) will drop you as a candidate entirely if you ask for salary too soon in the process.

Sucks for them. They came to me, they need me, not the other way around. Thus, they have to appease me. That's the way markets work.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#93

Post by stuaxo »

dorfsmay wrote: post #18

Are recruiters that big of an issue for you guys? I do not get that many emails/contacts from recruiters, and I find a quick polite email exchange or one phone call allows to quickly clarify the situation and we're done. I actually welcome recruiters contacting me, it keeps me in the loop of what's going, market rate etc... and sometime help me finding new gigs. EDIT: It seems that where you are located makes a big d…

I've been working for 15 years and get a lot of emails. OK, it's useful when I need a job, but about 1 in 30 is relevant. You know it's all keyword based, I haven't done Java for 8 years yet I get it all the bloody time!

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#94

Post by Kevin_S »

ryan-c wrote: post #28
rilita wrote: post #20

Regarding your choice of fields: 1. Name - This is already in emails I get from recruiters 2. Email - Useful since LinkedIn emails typically don't include their actual email 3. Phone Number - Ditto to #1; they typically include it 4. How did you find me - Considering you stated this is in reply to LinkedIn recruiters; LinkedIn?? ... 5. Name of the company - Most recruiters will not share this information until you ha…

Re asking recruiters about salary - it's about not wasting everyone's time. If someone's happy with their current job and would need a substantial pay increase to consider leaving it, then it is a waste of both their time and the recruiters time if the salary requirements can't be met. I would change that field's description to include "approximate", though. The most negative reaction I've ever gotten to something li…

Can you tell me more about the last part? I am interning currently with an information security consulting company and most of what I will be doing is working on PCI-DSS audits. Accounting/Econ degree, I am having trouble finding salary ranges for professionals in this area.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#95

Post by marktangotango »

dragonwriter wrote: post #63
xofer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. If you seriously want to know what they're willing to pay, you'll have to go through the whole hiring process.

> There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. Only because enough people accept that to shift the power away from would-be employees. If there is really a shortage of good tech workers, as employers keep claiming, then they have the power -- all they have to do is choose to exercise it. Make the would…

Lately, if I can get a job description from the recruiter, I'll reply with 'I would require ${current salary * 1.1} to consider moving at this time'. Usually I get responses such 'they would go that salary for the right candidate'. Note you have to specify straight salary, not total compensation, otherwise they try to tack on all the benefits everyone offers now as 'total compensation package' BS.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#96

Post by marktangotango »

rilita wrote: post #72
mathgeek wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

I would never hire someone with this perspective. Quality of the position and the ability to enjoy it and work hard without stressing is way more important than pay in my book.

The quality of your hires will reflect this.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#97

Post by bsg75 »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #73
joezydeco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind either, but what's annoying is how frustratingly vague they are when they are contacting me first . A typical example: Recruiter: "I have a great senior engineering position and you're a perfect match!" Me: "Great. Can you send me a job description and tell me more about what field they're in? I'm an embedded guy and I'm going to want to know if this is (for example) medical, automotive, HMI, or somethin…

I really don't mind the emails. It's the cold calls that bug me. I'll be sitting at my desk, happy and content and writing code, when my phone starts to buzz. "Odd," I say, "I don't know anybody from Massachusetts.. maybe it's important!" So I answer. "Hello, I am calling from [recruiting company] and have a perfect position for you doing [x, y, and z]! Are you interested?" Now I think to myself that maybe the job wi…

> It's the cold calls that bug me.

I never answer calls from numbers I don't know. I rarely listen to voice mails from the same. How often do important calls come from unknown numbers? In my case, never.

If its a business thing, and they don't have my email address, chances are we don't have any relationship that will lead to anything productive.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#99

Post by ufmace »

Methusalah wrote: post #47

I had one track down the phone number for my employer, call here, and ask the secretary to speak with me while refusing to say what the reason was until he spoke with me.

Hasn't happened to me, but it's happened several times to a guy I work with. They always claim that they need help with some software issue, I guess to make it sound more plausible, though I have no idea why anyone outside the company would call us for software help.

Re: Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

#100

Post by xofer »

marktangotango wrote: post #95
dragonwriter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. Only because enough people accept that to shift the power away from would-be employees. If there is really a shortage of good tech workers, as employers keep claiming, then they have the power -- all they have to do is choose to exercise it. Make the would…

Lately, if I can get a job description from the recruiter, I'll reply with 'I would require ${current salary * 1.1} to consider moving at this time'. Usually I get responses such 'they would go that salary for the right candidate'. Note you have to specify straight salary, not total compensation, otherwise they try to tack on all the benefits everyone offers now as 'total compensation package' BS.

Right -- for the right candidate. I don't buy things without vetting them first; why would I expect someone else to? The suggestion that there is some exact figure out there that you are worth is false binary thinking. There are lots of factors that make you a better or worse candidate for any particular job. The better you are at the art of feeling out the situation and presenting yourself in the best light, the better you'll do, and the more you'll realize that starting with, "What are you offering?" isn't a good tactic.
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