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Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

gingkoapp.com

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Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#91

Post by adriano_f »

andrewfong wrote: post #81

Nice. The inadvertent jump to another branch can be disorienting though. Suppose my tree structure is as so: * a ** b *** c * d ** e *** f *** g *** h Gingko lays it out like this: a b c d e f g h If I'm in the far right column, let's say I've highlighted item g and go up to item f. However, I hold the arrow key down a little too long and overshoot to item c. This causes everything to the left to suddenly jump around…

Yes we could definitely improve the way you interact with the tree.

For one thing, the looping back when holding the arrow key is annoying to me too, and a simple fix we will get to.

As for the branch jumping, we tried other approaches, but haven't found one that works well in all cases.

The core of Gingko, navigating tree structures, is something we are constantly trying to improve.

Thanks for your feedback!

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#92

Post by adriano_f »

mbreese wrote: post #87

What happened to the app shown in the linked Science without borders talk? That looks more useful to me, if only because it fits with the typical science paper writing workflow. How did the document editor migrate to this 2D editor?

That app still exists, and it's being worked on by my friend Ivan Savov, one of the original founders.

You can check it out at http://papers.mcgillweb.com

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#93

Post by adriano_f »

Serow225 wrote: post #64

Neat. A couple thoughts: 1) it took me some time to figure out that I could scroll a given column when the mouse is over it... Also when the mouse is over a non-column area (background on far right/left) it would be useful if scrolling did a global scroll of all columns at the same time. 2) It could be nice if the sections M+1/M-1 (above/below) the selected section in column N were given a subtle distinct color, and…

We explored having different color scheme to denote the node distance between two cards.

Unfortunately, it got too messy, and neither of us are designers, so we had to shelve it for now.

As for scrolling, and want the mouse scrolling to work just like keyboard (selects the card at center, reorders other columns appropriately). Haven't gotten around to it yet.

Thanks for your feedback!

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#94

Post by Serow225 »

adriano_f wrote: post #93
Serow225 wrote: post #64

Neat. A couple thoughts: 1) it took me some time to figure out that I could scroll a given column when the mouse is over it... Also when the mouse is over a non-column area (background on far right/left) it would be useful if scrolling did a global scroll of all columns at the same time. 2) It could be nice if the sections M+1/M-1 (above/below) the selected section in column N were given a subtle distinct color, and…

We explored having different color scheme to denote the node distance between two cards. Unfortunately, it got too messy, and neither of us are designers, so we had to shelve it for now. As for scrolling, and want the mouse scrolling to work just like keyboard (selects the card at center, reorders other columns appropriately). Haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for your feedback!

Thanks for the reply & good luck!

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#96

Post by marcamillion »

adriano_f wrote: post #58
marcamillion wrote: post #57

This looks awesome, but the elephant in the room is how does the document look offline? Can it be exported to PDF or be printed or something? When you print it, how does it look?

With better support mobile devices (including eReaders and whatever comes after them), we hope it'll be less of an issue as time goes on. Right now, we simply export the Markdown to flat text (breadth-first). But we will be adding PDF export options, for exporting the whole document, or one column. That way, you can still end up with a traditional document at the end, if you want. Any other ideas?

I think you may be overthinking it.

If you just created a document with each hierarchy organized properly, I think you should be fine.

E.g. you create say 3 heading sizes in Word. 24px, 20px, 16px.

Then for the main point, i.e. the content in the left-most column, you put those under a heading that is under the 24px - then any sub content from the 2nd column would go under a 20px heading that is under the first 24px heading and so on.

So there is a chronological order of the content.

I think that's all you need. Proper placement of the content under the right headings, make the headings different sizes and you make sure it flows like the author intended (which I think you can ensure by using the order they setup on your site).

That's just my $0.02.

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#97

Post by anigbrowl »

adriano_f wrote: post #40
anigbrowl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Questionable. I work in the film trade, and while people may consider a logline or a one-sheet, when some reads a script they sit down and read it start to finish, like a book. It's going to play in linear form on the screen, so it has to be read that way as well. What authors usually do is is knock out a freeform treatment where the story is described in prose, which is then broken down into scenes. It is helpful to…

It's great to have a film insider's take on this. The screenplay examples do only go up to the "scene card" level, but we plan to have more columns so you could add the script there as well. That way you could go start-to-finish, or have overviews as well. > I do think this would very useful for film students doing analysis. Interesting, thanks. A question: would this be useful for pitching a film? Say if there were…

Somewhat. A fully developed proposal will have a book with all that stuff, but OTOH it's a fact of life in Hollywood that you shouldn't spend too much money on that stuff before you go into production, for 2 reasons. One, it's a fast way to go broke. Two, you wouldn't have all that stuff to hand if you were trying to turn your friend onto a great film that you had seen and thought your friend should watch right now. Studio execs don't want to be distracted by eye candy or character sheets, they want to hear something that fires their imagination.

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#98

Post by anigbrowl »

Matti wrote: post #30

Far from identical, but along similar lines: http://treesheets.com/ "It's like a spreadsheet, immediately familiar, but much more suitable for complex data because it's hierarchical. It's like a mind mapper, but more organized and compact. It's like an outliner, but in more than one dimension. It's like a text editor, but with structure. " You can nest spreadsheet-like cells within cells within cells within cells.. a…

Interesting. Also, great to have the screenshots up front.

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#99

Post by adriano_f »

IanCal wrote: post #59

Hopefully this criticism is helpful. I find this really hard to read, sorry. I can't just scroll through or scan read, and I'm met with a variety of different things all at once. Everything's always visible, so I don't know what I'm looking at. I've scrolled down on the lowest level, and read a bit but have no understanding of the context. Clicking on it makes me realise where I am but I've skipped over a load of stu…

I agree, the UI needs improvement. No one feels the gaps more than I do. But they say, "launch before you're ready!" ;)

For one thing, scrolling on its own (with mouse scroll), doesn't automatically highlight whichever card is now centered. So it breaks the flow. Clicking, or scrolling with keyboard are the only way right now to keep the context clear.

> the hyperbole is a bit of a turnoff for me.

I know, it's a big claim, and I don't expect anyone else to believe it. I thought about not including it, but it's honestly what I believe. Delusional founder? Check.

> This is really a different formatter for the same structure of text we've already been using

That's true, more or less. Table of contents, chapter & subsection breaks, etc, are all attempts to make the structure clearer.

However, once we go beyond 3 levels deep, this has significant advantages.

One can get an overview of a text by reading column 1, but can drill deeper and deeper into specific sections, and even into other trees that are embedded (or "transcluded") into this one. We could have all of physics, or comp-sci, in one tree, and the reader will always be able to drill in for more, or zoom out for overview.

> Why do we need something new? What's being added? What couldn't I do before that's now possible?

There are great benefits for writing this way, for one. Rearranging entire sections or subsections is just a drag and drop. Working collaboratively is also easier, because each person can focus on their particular strengths

> Hopefully this criticism is helpful.

It is, thank you. All criticism forces us to reevaluate our approach, again and again.

Re: Show HN: Gingko, a tree-document editor

#100

Post by zachrose »

adriano_f wrote: post #85
IanCal wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It relies on Markdown (and LaTeX through extensions). We export to Md, but will be adding more import/export options in the future. We hope to create a publication standard for it. Do we need a new standard for structured documents? Would a not be sufficient?

For three levels deep, no we don't need a new standard. Larger trees, linked together will probably need something new.

Why does it matter how many levels there are?
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