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Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

lightwhale.asklandd.dk

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Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#91
post #3

So I’ve just set up my home server with Ubuntu server, installed docker with one line and I’m off to the races. What’s different/ exactly the value prop of this? You mention maintenance, of what exactly? Is your server a slimmed down version to run on less powerful hardware? Genuinely curious as I’m new to setting up a home server so seeing how this would benefit me.

Hi, thanks for taking interested in my project!

I assumes you've visited the Lightwhale website and at least read the headlines:

"No maintenance headaches. Just boot and focus on what matters!"

and the first section, including:

"Lightwhale lowers the entry barrier, removes tedious administration tasks, and opens a friction-free path to productivity"

But maybe you dismissed as being empty buzzwords, or didn't quite believe it, so you want an explanation. That's perfectly okay, allow me to elaborate:

So, if you've already gone though the process of partitioning, installing, and configuring a general purpose operating system, and then ran that "one line" that added the docker repository, installed docker, docker-compose, and buildx, and presumably also added yourself to the docker user group, then I'd say you've got a head start compared to a clean, bare-metal box. True, you're now off to the races.

Of course, all this work and time invested in your system comes with a tax called maintenance.

Everything you just installed is live. And now your job is to keep everything safe and sound. Not just the files in $HOME and /etc/, but also /usr/bin/docker, /usr/bin/bash, /lib/libc.so, and even /usr/bin/[. But that's just the rootfs. You also have to groom your boot partition. Even the partition table and MBR. I know, your installer and package manager handles that for you. But nevertheless, all this is writable and either imposes an attack surface, is at risk of daily butter fingers breaking things, or lives on a filesystem that may introduce silent bitrot or on a media that can fail. But that's not the end of it. If do a good job, your server will live a long and happy life. And eventually, you get to experience something remarkable: It dies. I'm not talking about the hardware suffering a fatal crash, no; I'm taking about Canonical deciding that your version of Ubuntu is now suddenly going into End Of Life. You now have choices to make: Should you upgrade and leave your system at the mercy of the numerous upgrade scripts? Should you reinstall to get a clean slate, repeat everything mentioned above, and try to migrate your data configuration, containers, volumes, etc? Or maybe just leave the OS there dead; afterall, you're only interested in your docker containers and they're unaffected, so that seems like a valid path. Except every time you log in, it's like stepping over a dead body in the doorway, and that doesn't feel quite right.

Of course, if you find these administration tasks fun and interesting that's perfectly okay. And honestly, I can absolutely relate to that, because I've been doing it as a hobby since forever, and I enjoyed myself. Until I reached a point where the installer and maintenance didn't interest me as much as just running the software.

Now, look back at my taglines above, and I hope you can see how Lightwhale can benefit you in setting up a home server:

If you want less tedious administration and maintenance, but instead like a friction-free path to just boot and run your software, then Lightwhale is worth a try.

Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#92
post #6
post #3

So I’ve just set up my home server with Ubuntu server, installed docker with one line and I’m off to the races. What’s different/ exactly the value prop of this? You mention maintenance, of what exactly? Is your server a slimmed down version to run on less powerful hardware? Genuinely curious as I’m new to setting up a home server so seeing how this would benefit me.

I do the same thing. Being immutable is supposed to be great for updates. New image version and if there's a problem you can boot back to the last version no problem. But functionally, like you I find Ubuntu server fine. I run apt update and upgrade a couple times a year and its local only with tailscale access. I find these immutable OS's really nice on laptop or desktop. The home directory is the only thing that ca…

I do the opposite:

My workstation is where I work, fiddle with things, experiment. It 's a workbench in the context of software development. So I need to be able to modify and configure everything, install things, uninstall them again. A can't use a workbench wrapped in cellophane.

I want my server stable and fixed. I don't care about the OS, I don't want to configure it, update it, and otherwise maintain it. It's just a platform to run the Docker Engine and my containers.

Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#93

I dont get it. Why do I need immutable if I'm just running docker? Why do I need a specialized Debian variant when I can install docker on Debian or Ubuntu in a couple minutes? And maintenance happens directly through the package manager, either through the distro maintained repo, or by adding the official docker repos? This immutable fad needs to go away. So does flatpak and snap. Linux already does the things these…

I'll try and answer all your points:

I tried to outline the project features in brief at the start of the page. I'm sorry if I didn't communicate it clearly. Feel free to pinpoint where you were thrown off.

You need immutability so you don't have to worry/waste time on maintaining the system, and instead can focus on your containers.

Lightwhale isn't a special Debian variant. It's built ground up with Buildroot. It is literally purpose-built for this task.

A package manager doesn't remove the burden of maintenance, it just makes it easier. But it's still maintenance. I'm basically arguing it's unnecessary as long as you have a Docker Engine.

Snap and flatpak, while totally different concepts, I agree.

Linux (or GNU) doesn't solve any of this by itself.

True, the root account is a layer of security. But there are still may other problem even attack surfaces on a system.

I did a different explanation here that is easier to relate to, perhaps: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47932066

Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#94
post #15

This is relevant to what I have been learning about recently! I'm getting ready to launch an online game and I'm dealing with "how do I just run my game server on dozens of boxes without dealing with linux stuff". I don't really have an answer yet (leaning into "just get one really powerful box" lol), but my investigation into the problem so far has been pretty interesting. You can conceptualize the "my program + the…

I'm biased, but I could see Lightwhale play a key role in this setup. You could start small, two nodes with Lightwhale in a Docker Swarm cluster. Run your server in a container. Leverage Swarm's load balancing to distribute connections to the nodes. You go l can even experiment with this in Proxmox and run the Lightwhale nodes as VMs if you like.

You get a minimum effort OS to host your game on, and the option to distribute it.

Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#95
post #49

I dont get it. Why do I need immutable if I'm just running docker? Why do I need a specialized Debian variant when I can install docker on Debian or Ubuntu in a couple minutes? And maintenance happens directly through the package manager, either through the distro maintained repo, or by adding the official docker repos? This immutable fad needs to go away. So does flatpak and snap. Linux already does the things these…

Indeed, Debian stable with podman/Docker is "immutable enough" for me. It is also the insurance that I will get help whenever I'm stuck. Sure it could be smaller ... but when it already runs fine on any hardware, even weird stuff like a BananaPi with a low-end RISC-V processor, then I have a difficult time wanting anything else.

I won't try to change your mind, but I think you should know that...

Debian isn't immutable at all. Everything is writable from the partition table, the kernel, to the C library and every executable.

Lightwhale has very few moving parts, making it less likely to get stuck. The single-page website is easily searchable and has information to get most people started. The Lightwhale Discord server answers the rest.

Here's a link to the advantages that immutability of Lightwhale brings to the table, just to give you an idea what you're dealing with: https://lightwhale.asklandd.dk/#immutability

Re: Show HN: I've built a nice home server OS

#97
post #75
post #36

If this was built using zfs, it would have zvols and metadata in the fs for persistence. And the states would be perhaps more portable at a cost of .. zfs. Not a huge criticism, life is about choices.

Hello! I went with Btrfs for persistence, and automated some things around that. For example, if you give Lightwhale two magic disks, it will automatically create a Btrfs RAID1. During persistence setup it will also create a few default subvolumes to fully support snapshots and rollback of the entire data filesystem. (Remember, the rootfs of the OS is still immutable, and is never part of the data filesystem). Beside…

Apple and Oracle had a fight. Mac took the low risk road. Debian are licence wary and so its add-ons.

The memory thing is somewhat misunderstood and tunable.

I'm not here to sell. You need confidence in the choices you make and you made rational choices.

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