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Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

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Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#91

Post by carlosjobim »

sonofhans wrote: post #11

I am the target audience for this, from a UX and tech perspective. It addresses a problem I have and for which I periodically audition solutions. A subscription for a menu bar, though, kills it for me. I have apps on Macs that are over 20 years old. Some of those companies don’t exist anymore. I’m not going to risk paying $100 for a decade of your app and hope that your company, or your goodwill, stays around that lo…

The target audience for any product for sale are people who are willing to pay.

Not people who are outraged by that concept.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#92

Post by jorl17 »

a-ve wrote: post #43
jorl17 wrote: post #37

Hi! Over the years, I've tried several of these dock replacement apps. The one that stuck the longest was uBar (which I used with a setup similar to what you have here, emulating a "windows taskbar". I've hit issues with most of them that forced me to move back to the normal Dock, but the number one issue has always been around notification badges: they always seemed to break in strange ways. For example, can your do…

Hi there - I ran into the same issue myself, but sadly I still haven't found a way to show the badge count without opening the app. I'm still experimenting with it. I expected some pushback on subscriptions, but after trying uBar and running into quite a few issues with it I wanted to build something that feels reliable and polished. I’m pretty much all-in on the Apple ecosystem now, even though I only switched ~6 mo…

Surely the regular Dock uses some hidden API. Could you try to trace it?

Having failed that, I'd look into trying to inspect (if possible, even we have to disable SIP) the dock itself. Have it do the work for us and read out its badges.

(Throwing random ideas out there, I'm sure you've thought of this)

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#93

Post by applfanboysbgon »

senorrib wrote: post #85
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly bizarre that you portray consumers as irrational for not wanting subs and businesses as rational for wanting subs. Both are rational in their own interests: businesses want subs because it means more money and more control in the long run. Consumers don't want subs because it means paying more money in the long run and eventually having their software taken away from them if the company goes under, make…

That’s an economic concept, not a dig at consumers. It’s well known (hell, there’s a nobel laureate for it) that humans are irrational when it comes to economics.

Was the thesis of the fake Nobel recipient that consumers are irrational specifically because they prefer one-time purchases to subscriptions? Otherwise I'm not really sure what the relevance of bringing it up in this very specific context it.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#94

Post by cosmic_cheese »

amarant wrote: post #56
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true if what you want is a full macOS-style desktop experience with a few choice features from elsewhere bolted on. Linux desktops are predominantly Windows-style or minimal tiling thing, with the exceptions (GNOME, Pantheon) bearing only surface-level Mac aesthetics and being more comparable to superpowered tablet OS experiences.

Can you expand a bit on what you mean by "Superpowered tablet os"? I'm tend to think of it as a server os with a DE, but as a backend developer I'm probably biased.

I'm talking about the desktop environment explicitly, not the underlying OS.

To me, GNOME and Pantheon (elementaryOS DE) strongly resemble e.g. iPadOS or Android running on a tablet for a few reasons:

- Chunky heavily padded touch-optimized UI elements (even when no touch capability is present)

- By default, minimize button not present in titlebars

- Near total abandonment of menubars in favor of mobile-style "hamburger" menus

- By default, no desktop icons (not even an app grid!)

- Simplistic ecosystem apps with mobile-like philosophy of eschewing functionality that doesn't fit in toolbars and hamburger menus

- Little to no presence of progressive disclosure (enabling power user functions to be present without falling in the path of novices and tripping them up)

- Limited extensibility and scriptability (more so than macOS in some ways), with what exists (GNOME extensions) being fragile and breaking constantly due to needing to monkeypatch UI code

While it's not my cup of tea, KDE and even less trendy DEs like XFCE do a better job at acting like an actual desktop environment and surfacing the capabilities of the system.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#95

Post by sonofhans »

a-ve wrote: post #28
sonofhans wrote: post #11

I am the target audience for this, from a UX and tech perspective. It addresses a problem I have and for which I periodically audition solutions. A subscription for a menu bar, though, kills it for me. I have apps on Macs that are over 20 years old. Some of those companies don’t exist anymore. I’m not going to risk paying $100 for a decade of your app and hope that your company, or your goodwill, stays around that lo…

I think that’s a fair question. My thinking is pretty simple: most people will probably choose the basic 2-device plan, which works out to about $0.85 per month. For an app like this, I think that is a reasonable price. Another reason is that a lot of Mac apps charge a one-time fee upfront, but then require paid upgrades later. In practice, that often ends up being similar to paying for a few years of ongoing support…

Thank you for replying. I understand your perspective — the subscription is a signal that you will maintain the app long-term, and to provide the revenue for it. Also, it looks cheap. A few counter-points, while we’re talking:

> For an app like this, I think that’s a reasonable price.

Except that it’s not a price, it’s an access fee, and those are very different. If it were a price I’d have the thing I paid for — a binary to use as a like. Instead what I have is a token that you can revoke at any time for any reason, including you getting hit by a car or getting bored with the app.

> a low-cost subscription sets a clearer expectation that the app will continue to be maintained …

Forgive the bluntness, but it does no such thing. This app just launched. No one has reason to believe the little business behind it will still exist in 12 months. Death rate for products like this is very high. A subscription from me is a bet that you will still be around in a year, and you have zero track record.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#96

Post by cosmic_cheese »

dismalaf wrote: post #64
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true if what you want is a full macOS-style desktop experience with a few choice features from elsewhere bolted on. Linux desktops are predominantly Windows-style or minimal tiling thing, with the exceptions (GNOME, Pantheon) bearing only surface-level Mac aesthetics and being more comparable to superpowered tablet OS experiences.

Gnome is a pretty big exception lol. Considering it's the dominant DE. Also tablet OS? Gnome is keyboard driven with tiling features OOTB...

See my answer to the other comment[0].

Being keyboard-driven is nice but doesn't make up for these things, and these days macOS comes with Aero-Snap-like tiling built in too.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743939

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#97

Post by garganzol »

fii wrote: post #29

Subscription on something like this is goofy, and extra subscription per seat even for personal is goofier. For free, I can use Alfred/Raycast, Aerospace, and either sketchybar or zebar and have all this functionality executed even more skillfully and ergonomically. If you want to throw money into it, Alfred power pack is £34 and supports a great company with a lifetime purchase. But I also understand I’m not the tar…

I always have an eerie felling when something like that has a dependency on 3rd party presence.

Q&A section doesn't explain what happens when the subscription is no longer active, but the app is still installed. What happens when the app manufacturer goes out of business? Does the app continue to work?

The subscription is a tell sign of an egoisticBar. A real boringBar wouldn't do that to its users.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#98

Post by cosmic_cheese »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #50
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really true if what you want is a full macOS-style desktop experience with a few choice features from elsewhere bolted on. Linux desktops are predominantly Windows-style or minimal tiling thing, with the exceptions (GNOME, Pantheon) bearing only surface-level Mac aesthetics and being more comparable to superpowered tablet OS experiences.

MacOS is neutered for any advanced or even power user compared to practically any Linux desktop experience. Trying to just resize or remove a window should convince you of that instantly.

It's just a matter of what one is used to. As someone who's used macOS since before OS X was released (alongside Windows and Linux), moving and resizing windows rarely poses issues.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#99

Post by a-ve »

OP here - based on the feedback, I’ve switched boringBar to a perpetual license for personal use: https://boringbar.app

It’s now $40 for 2 devices and includes 2 years of updates. After that, you can keep using the version you have, or choose to pay for updates again later.

For businesses, I’m keeping the existing annual pricing.

A lot of the comments on pricing were fair, and I appreciate people being direct about it. I still care a lot about long-term maintenance for an app like this, but I think this is a better balance.

Re: Show HN: boringBar – a taskbar-style dock replacement for macOS

#100

Post by a-ve »

sonofhans wrote: post #95
a-ve wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s a fair question. My thinking is pretty simple: most people will probably choose the basic 2-device plan, which works out to about $0.85 per month. For an app like this, I think that is a reasonable price. Another reason is that a lot of Mac apps charge a one-time fee upfront, but then require paid upgrades later. In practice, that often ends up being similar to paying for a few years of ongoing support…

Thank you for replying. I understand your perspective — the subscription is a signal that you will maintain the app long-term, and to provide the revenue for it. Also, it looks cheap. A few counter-points, while we’re talking: > For an app like this, I think that’s a reasonable price. Except that it’s not a price, it’s an access fee, and those are very different. If it were a price I’d have the thing I paid for — a b…

Alright - that's fair.

I've taken the feedback here and added a perpetual personal license for 2 devices at $40 - it includes 2 years of updates and the app will keep on working after that.

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