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Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

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Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#91

Post by happymellon »

earthnail wrote: post #79
LVB wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They seem to gate on a feature-by-feature basis, know when you bought the license, and you don't get access to the new features after 1 year (unless you're on their subscription plan). You do continue to get the latest app, which includes bug fixes, but the features released past expiration aren't available to you. https://dueapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360053244591-Wh...

That is so much more work than simply not getting the latest update. Imagine if sth like IntelliJ put everything behind feature gates instead of just telling you to download an older version…

I don't think it's their fault, it's the way that Apple have decided to force everyone to develop.

Apple want that reoccurring revenue from other people's work.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#92

Post by outcoldman »

earthnail wrote: post #45
jbverschoor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! I like Sketch's and other app's approach. Keep the version forever, 1 year free upgrades. Great work! Will def. try it out

Unfortunately that’s not supported by Apple on the App Store. Luckily Mac apps aren’t super reliant on the App Store but it’s still a huge issue.

I believe Reeder is doing kind of this feature. They release every year or every other year a new version with new version name like Reeder 5. So, if you want an upgrade, you just purchase Reeder 5, but you can always download Reeder 4 if you have purchased it before.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#93

Post by outcoldman »

mk89 wrote: post #66
lelandfe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most macOS email apps do subscription pricing these days. Airmail, Spark, Mimestream… I wonder why that is.

> I wonder why that is. Money. Apple gets 30% off your app purchase and/or in-app purchases, while it gets 30% from your subscription for the first year and 15% for the subsequent years. So, if you think your app is worth 10$, you lose 3$ and the ability to make more money and to support its development (if you do, they have to be in-app purchases, like extensions, etc. and again 30% is gone). On the other hand, if y…

If you really want to make $10 from a user, you just charge them $12.99. No need for Subscriptions.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#94

Post by thrwwycbr »

mk89 wrote: post #66
lelandfe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most macOS email apps do subscription pricing these days. Airmail, Spark, Mimestream… I wonder why that is.

> I wonder why that is. Money. Apple gets 30% off your app purchase and/or in-app purchases, while it gets 30% from your subscription for the first year and 15% for the subsequent years. So, if you think your app is worth 10$, you lose 3$ and the ability to make more money and to support its development (if you do, they have to be in-app purchases, like extensions, etc. and again 30% is gone). On the other hand, if y…

Wanted to add that Apple's fee is pre-tax, and Apple doesn't pay taxes (duh).

Additionally, the refund policy of Apple is so bad that they keep the 30% and the developer has to pay for refunds 100%, meaning it's a net loss and a lot of indie game devs got doxxed into insolvency because of this.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#95

Post by mk89 »

outcoldman wrote: post #93
mk89 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why that is. Money. Apple gets 30% off your app purchase and/or in-app purchases, while it gets 30% from your subscription for the first year and 15% for the subsequent years. So, if you think your app is worth 10$, you lose 3$ and the ability to make more money and to support its development (if you do, they have to be in-app purchases, like extensions, etc. and again 30% is gone). On the other hand, if y…

If you really want to make $10 from a user, you just charge them $12.99. No need for Subscriptions.

If you want to make 10$ you need to sell it for 14.29$ because the 30% is taken from the total. (30% of 14.29 = 4.29).

Anyway, that's beyond the point. You need to find a way to support your development also for the next years.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#96

Post by mk89 »

thrwwycbr wrote: post #94
mk89 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why that is. Money. Apple gets 30% off your app purchase and/or in-app purchases, while it gets 30% from your subscription for the first year and 15% for the subsequent years. So, if you think your app is worth 10$, you lose 3$ and the ability to make more money and to support its development (if you do, they have to be in-app purchases, like extensions, etc. and again 30% is gone). On the other hand, if y…

Wanted to add that Apple's fee is pre-tax, and Apple doesn't pay taxes (duh). Additionally, the refund policy of Apple is so bad that they keep the 30% and the developer has to pay for refunds 100%, meaning it's a net loss and a lot of indie game devs got doxxed into insolvency because of this.

Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.

That's brutal.

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#98

Post by pembrook »

alexschnapp wrote: post #74
pembrook wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven’t addressed any of my questions, but I’ll play along. Im also tired of having to pay my employees a slice of my revenue every month for “making my business magically better.” Hidden salary demands, dark patterns to fire them, etc. I own my car. I own my laptop. Why can’t I own you? I guess what I’m saying is, why do you think the code you write for your employer deserves to be sold on a subscription model (…

Wait this doesn’t make sense. They own the code I wrote for them. The ‘subscription’ is for future updates of that code. They can keep the version and never update. If I quit they still have what I wrote.

And they pay you 10,000X the cost of $3/month for the ability to own that code.

But it seems you still aren’t following the hypocrisy inherent here.

If this one time payment + ownership model is so great for everyone as you say, why aren’t you working exclusively as a project-based freelancer? Why hasn’t your employer fired you the minute you finish every project?

Is the company that hired you stupid? Are you taking advantage of them?

Or does the subscription model for software only make sense when you’re the one selling it?

Re: Show HN: Swift Mail. Fastmail's modern mail standard delivered natively on macOS

#99

Post by Brian_K_White »

joshmanders wrote: post #77
freetanga wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought my house. I bought my car. I bought my laptop. I bought my servers. I don’t need to pay for them every month. In broad terms I am tired of having to make a paycheck every month and having a long list of companies wanting to take a slice from it for “making my life magically better”. Hidden price hikes, dark patterns to cancel, etc.

Your house and car also have monthly subscriptions that come with them. Electricity, gas, etc. Probably not a good comparison.

Gas is not a subscription. It's a recurring consumable, but when you buy a gallon of gas, or a cheeseburger, you bought an object and you own that object. You didn't rent the momentary use of it. Electricity has only a token subscription component.

The subscription aspect of a house is the property tax, which does blur the definition of ownership when it comes to land, if the government always has the ultimate claim.

Still they are perfectly apt comparisons. Consumables, even recurring ones, are not subscriptions unless you happen to subscribe to a service to provide those consumables. Even then you still actually own the delivered product and the only thing that stops when you stop paying is the service. They don't take the cheeseburger back, you just don't get a new one.

HP printers are now a subscription. They do retain control over the object and even the already-delivered ink stops working.

And it's an outrage, not reasonable. Artificially turning the seat heater in a car into a subscription is an outrage, not reasonable.

For most software, there is no reason it must be a subscription.

None of the value of updates and the treadmill of maintaining compatibility with other software, and the developer's wish to collect recurring income changes the fact that the software itself, if it functions today, can function exactly the same forever.

Maybe it will need to be run in a vm to provide an entire preserved world to go around it, maybe no one else will accept the files it produces any more after a while, and maybe you don't want to do any of that, but those are separate issues.

You could address those issues some other way like by writing a converter or something. If that's impractical, then you will surely buy new versions voluntarily, and there is no excuse for forcing you by breaking your existing things and essentially holding your life hostage all day every day.

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