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Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

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Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#91

Post by petree »

safety1st wrote: post #80
marticode wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing content also cost money, and producers get a cut of the ads or the subscription.

This kind of fantasy microeconomics debate is silly at best, disingenuous at worst. We are talking about a company with $280B in revenue per year and one of the highest profit margins in America. How they spend that money is not connected to what is fair or what makes some kind of logical sense in your head. It's connected to whatever will increase their profits further. All you are doing is laying down cover fire to…

Having a loss leader like this is exactly monopolistic behavior though. The fact that Google are trying to make money from it is expected and more fair to their competitors than just having it completely free, and not having ads either.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#92

Post by petree »

tgv wrote: post #74
petree wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use NoScript to disable JS and see how well that works. But more to the point, yes, a browser is a client, but without the economic incentive of either ads or direct monetization from users, many sites, YouTube included, would simply not work. Storage and bandwith costs money. Unless we decided to somehow fund all of this through some sort of additional tax through the ISPs or governments, ads or subscription…

Storage and bandwidth cost money, but not $14/month. You can get a server for yourself for that kind of money, and I don't think YouTube has a server per user.

Sure, it is definitely more expensive than I would like. But you still have the option to watch the ads if you don't like paying a sub. Expecting it to be completely free is unrealistic though.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#93

Post by pbhjpbhj »

loveparade wrote: post #48

I don't care as much about the privacy as I care about not messing up my Youtube recommendations. Any time I accidentally click on or hover over some BS video my front page is full of clickbait spam and I need to manually clean up my watch history. I guess (?) it works for monetization, but the UX of YouTube and their pushing of clickbait content has become horrible over the past few years. I just wish they stopped t…

The algorithm just seems really blunt. You like a video on one category and then your entire feed becomes that category, it's not mixed into the other 100 categories of video you've liked.

Like you said, I'm sure this works for engagement, but it's pretty evil. I know they don't care about being evil anymore; but it's still annoying.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#94

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

mandmandam wrote: post #90
atleta wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lookig at it source (the page downloaded when you open a YT link pointing to a video), it's almost certain that YT doesn't load without JS. It's not an html page with some extra functionality implemented in JS, it's a web app that builds the web page you see from JS. So firefox can't do much about it without actively trying to circumvent YT and YT specifically. I don't think browsers made the turn you mention. It's m…

> Also, you can't have an ad-free experience if the price of using a service is that the ad is delivered to you. On YT you can buy a subscription and you'll see no ads. Just to be very clear, those are not the only two possible options. YouTube - and Facebook, Google, Whatsapp, etc - are extraordinarily simple concepts. We don't need private corporations running them for profit. In fact, it's turning out really bad f…

You're welcome to build an alternative and claim their kingdom.

The reason that hasn't happened yet is because whether or not you find YT an extraordinarily simple concept, the execution is tremendously difficult.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#95

Post by littlestymaar »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #94
mandmandam wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, you can't have an ad-free experience if the price of using a service is that the ad is delivered to you. On YT you can buy a subscription and you'll see no ads. Just to be very clear, those are not the only two possible options. YouTube - and Facebook, Google, Whatsapp, etc - are extraordinarily simple concepts. We don't need private corporations running them for profit. In fact, it's turning out really bad f…

You're welcome to build an alternative and claim their kingdom. The reason that hasn't happened yet is because whether or not you find YT an extraordinarily simple concept, the execution is tremendously difficult.

The execution being nontrivial is not in fact the main reason why you can't just “claim their kingdom”, their biggest most is by far the network effect, not the technological challenges (which also nontrivial, is far more tractable today than it used to be when YouTube was founded, and even then it still only required 67 employees to build from scratch).

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#96

Post by _Algernon_ »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #87
_Algernon_ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube just isn't valueable enough (in my mind), to get away with that.

The new generation knows mostly the web through jailed devices called "smartphones". They will have no idea, and just assume that's how things are. HN bubble strikes again.

I'm well aware that I'm an outlier here which is why I stated "in my mind". Not sure why you feel the need to write "HN bubble strikes again" except for a lack of reading comprehension or an attempt at trolling.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#97

Post by Tor3 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #79
ryandrake wrote: post #40

It would be nice if browsers were able to get around all these kinds of shenanigans directly, instead of having to always reach for extensions and addons and endlessly participate in this cat and mouse game. After all, the browser is supposed to be the user's agent. Its job is to do what the user wants and fetch the content that the user asks for. Somewhere along the path, we've made a terrible turn and allowed the b…

Now that DRM are part of the web standards, and TPM are generalized, it's game over. I predict youtube will escalate this way: - Pump up aggressive anti ad block measures. - It will fail, so they will enforce DRM so that they have control. - It will not be enough, so they will ask to only serve DRM to "trusted browsers". - And it will not suffice, so the trusted browser will have to run on a trusted OS checked by har…

If the day comes when it's impossible to watch Youtube without ads I'll have to leave, despite how important youtube is for me currently. I just can't watch ads. It's impossible. I don't watch a single TV channel with ads, it's too painful. So, advertisement-supported "moving pictures" (or sound, for that matter - I never listen to radio channels serving ads either) is out of the question, with no exceptions for me personally.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#98

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

littlestymaar wrote: post #95
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to build an alternative and claim their kingdom. The reason that hasn't happened yet is because whether or not you find YT an extraordinarily simple concept, the execution is tremendously difficult.

The execution being nontrivial is not in fact the main reason why you can't just “claim their kingdom”, their biggest most is by far the network effect, not the technological challenges (which also nontrivial, is far more tractable today than it used to be when YouTube was founded, and even then it still only required 67 employees to build from scratch).

The "execution" I'm referring to isn't limited to the technical implementation.

I'm not sure why you decided to interpret my comment in the least charitable way.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#99

Post by matheusmoreira »

atleta wrote: post #57
ryandrake wrote: post #40

It would be nice if browsers were able to get around all these kinds of shenanigans directly, instead of having to always reach for extensions and addons and endlessly participate in this cat and mouse game. After all, the browser is supposed to be the user's agent. Its job is to do what the user wants and fetch the content that the user asks for. Somewhere along the path, we've made a terrible turn and allowed the b…

Lookig at it source (the page downloaded when you open a YT link pointing to a video), it's almost certain that YT doesn't load without JS. It's not an html page with some extra functionality implemented in JS, it's a web app that builds the web page you see from JS. So firefox can't do much about it without actively trying to circumvent YT and YT specifically. I don't think browsers made the turn you mention. It's m…

> So firefox can't do much about it without actively trying to circumvent YT and YT specifically.

There's no reason why Firefox couldn't do that.

> Also, you can't have an ad-free experience if the price of using a service is that the ad is delivered to you.

Sure I can, uBlock Origin provides exactly that. They are not entitled to my attention. If they have a problem with that, they can return 402 Payment Required.

Re: Show HN: Firefox add-on to open YouTube videos in alternative front ends

#100

Post by matheusmoreira »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #79
ryandrake wrote: post #40

It would be nice if browsers were able to get around all these kinds of shenanigans directly, instead of having to always reach for extensions and addons and endlessly participate in this cat and mouse game. After all, the browser is supposed to be the user's agent. Its job is to do what the user wants and fetch the content that the user asks for. Somewhere along the path, we've made a terrible turn and allowed the b…

Now that DRM are part of the web standards, and TPM are generalized, it's game over. I predict youtube will escalate this way: - Pump up aggressive anti ad block measures. - It will fail, so they will enforce DRM so that they have control. - It will not be enough, so they will ask to only serve DRM to "trusted browsers". - And it will not suffice, so the trusted browser will have to run on a trusted OS checked by har…

Yup. Only way we can possibly win is by writing computing freedom into actual law. Make it literally illegal for them to use cryptography to violate our freedoms. Service providers should be required by law to interoperate with our computers, no matter what software we choose to run. If we reverse engineer their little apps and make free software versions, they should have to suck it up. We used to be able to buy whatever phone, modem or router we wanted and hook it up to the network with no issues. Software should work the same way.
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