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Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

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Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#91

Post by onionisafruit »

matthewmueller wrote: post #53
onionisafruit wrote: post #11

Congratulations on shipping. The demo looks great. I see views and controllers in the documentation, but the only mention of model is that "model" is a reserved directory. What are your plans for models and persistence?

Thanks for your comment and question @onionisfruit. Top-notch handle too! >> What are your plans for models and persistence? I haven't worked out all the details, but it's going to be some blend of https://github.com/xo/xo and https://sqlc.dev/ . Design goals: 1. High-level, type-safe "ORM" that's generated from your database schema. 2. sqlc as a fallback to cover the more complex SQL queries in a type-safe way. The…

Your design goals look good to me. I think this will be one of the hardest parts to get right, so it's probably wise to save it for later so you can learn from implementing the rest of your design first.

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#93

Post by pphysch »

minism wrote: post #47
pphysch wrote: post #37

Cool project but I think building a full stack web framework in a language without features like operator overloading is a fool's errand. Yes, Go has nice standard templating and HTTP serving libraries, and nice dependency management. These are all important features for a web framework. No, it will never be productive as its competitors in the web framework space, because you simply cannot write expressions like `or…

I see where you're coming from, but tbh the more I work on web backend code the more I disagree with this. I really think database interactions should be made explicit, even early on, rather than hidden by ORMs (or overriding a dot operator).

That's fine, but you are making a trade off with productivity here.

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#94

Post by pphysch »

matthewmueller wrote: post #70
pphysch wrote: post #37

Cool project but I think building a full stack web framework in a language without features like operator overloading is a fool's errand. Yes, Go has nice standard templating and HTTP serving libraries, and nice dependency management. These are all important features for a web framework. No, it will never be productive as its competitors in the web framework space, because you simply cannot write expressions like `or…

Thanks for your comment @pphysch! So for authoring an app, I tend to agree with you. Languages like Ruby/Python/Typescript are probably faster to get something working. I try to consider productivity holistically though. With Go, there's a lot less fussing with the tooling. I've also found Go saves a lot of time when onboarding new teammates. This is because of Go's intentional decision to be conservative with syntax…

> I try to consider productivity holistically though. With Go, there's a lot less fussing with the tooling. I've also found Go saves a lot of time when onboarding new teammates. This is because of Go's intentional decision to be conservative with syntax. After all, most developer time is spent reading, not writing.

Ultimately you will be teaching the framework, not the language, when it comes to large frameworks like this. Both Go and Python are easy to learn, but frameworks always add a lot of complexity.

> I respectfully disagree with your preference to split your backend up over gRPC or HTTPS. I prefer the approach Shopify takes to break up it's monolith:

I'm not arguing for this or that architecture cargo cult. I prefer monoliths too, but sometimes you really need distributed microservices and Go+gRPC is one of the most maintainable ways to do that.

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#95

Post by mholt »

matthewmueller wrote: post #75
grose wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like https://github.com/caddyserver/certmagic perhaps?

Yes! This might be the one I add to Bud! Seems like a more mature version of: https://pkg.go.dev/golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert

Yes, definitely use CertMagic. Let me know if you have any questions!

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#96

Post by matthewmueller »

pphysch wrote: post #94
matthewmueller wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your comment @pphysch! So for authoring an app, I tend to agree with you. Languages like Ruby/Python/Typescript are probably faster to get something working. I try to consider productivity holistically though. With Go, there's a lot less fussing with the tooling. I've also found Go saves a lot of time when onboarding new teammates. This is because of Go's intentional decision to be conservative with syntax…

> I try to consider productivity holistically though. With Go, there's a lot less fussing with the tooling. I've also found Go saves a lot of time when onboarding new teammates. This is because of Go's intentional decision to be conservative with syntax. After all, most developer time is spent reading, not writing. Ultimately you will be teaching the framework, not the language, when it comes to large frameworks like…

Agree with you on both accounts!

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#97

Post by minism »

pphysch wrote: post #93
minism wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, but tbh the more I work on web backend code the more I disagree with this. I really think database interactions should be made explicit, even early on, rather than hidden by ORMs (or overriding a dot operator).

That's fine, but you are making a trade off with productivity here.

You have to be careful because sometimes productivity is just an illusion caused by accruing technical debt that you have to then pay for in time later. With database abstractions you often pay back this debt once the app reaches even slight complexity and you need to spend a lot of time understanding, debugging and refactoring query flows.

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#98

Post by shubham_sinha »

matthewmueller wrote: post #53
onionisafruit wrote: post #11

Congratulations on shipping. The demo looks great. I see views and controllers in the documentation, but the only mention of model is that "model" is a reserved directory. What are your plans for models and persistence?

Thanks for your comment and question @onionisfruit. Top-notch handle too! >> What are your plans for models and persistence? I haven't worked out all the details, but it's going to be some blend of https://github.com/xo/xo and https://sqlc.dev/ . Design goals: 1. High-level, type-safe "ORM" that's generated from your database schema. 2. sqlc as a fallback to cover the more complex SQL queries in a type-safe way. The…

First steps can be to use git diff and select what’s changed. Bulk of the heavy lifting will still be responsibility of ORM (sqlc). Later on this experience can be streamlined.

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#99

Post by anthropodie »

matthewmueller wrote: post #48
mstef9 wrote: post #6

People interested in this might also find my project Pagoda [0] interesting. It's a full-stack web dev starter kit for Go, rather than a framework with any strict patterns or lock-in. It leverages Echo (web) and Ent (ORM) but they can be easily swapped out, if desired. It also has HTMX [1] integration to create slick/modern UI behavior without writing any JS. [0] https://github.com/mikestefanello/pagoda [1] https://h…

Thanks for sharing @mstef9! I somehow missed this one in my research. I'm a huge fan of all efforts to make Go a serious contender for building full-stack web applications. Ent is a nice choice for the ORM. For models, I'm planning to go with a combo of sqlc + xo. I want to tie the DB schema to your application.

I am not a fan of ORMs. SQLc seems good but I think EdgeDB looks highly promising although it is relatively new. Thought you might want to take a look at it :)

https://www.edgedb.com/

relevant hn thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30290225

Re: Show HN: A Full-Stack Web Framework for Go

#100

Post by quickthrower2 »

0des wrote: post #92
quickthrower2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as well as sister comment, there is hugo, jekyll, etc.

fucking no. I want plain html.

? those things are as close the plain html without, well just editing html files yourself (which is fine!)
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