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Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

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Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#91

Post by brugeman »

rixtox wrote: post #90

I'm supprised no one has mentioned the fair exchange problem: if A, B engage in an exchange protocol, say A sends data to B while B paying to A, how to achieve fairness using an asynchornous protocol. Without a third party, either one of the two parties has to be in a position of advantage where it can choose to walk off without fulfilling his part of the contract. The problem still exists under "micro-transaction" s…

Great point. Not sure about state channels, but there are proposals for the Lightning Network. You could reveal a packet of data inside the payment confirmation itself, so it becomes atomic [1]. However, there are still issues: throughput, obviously, but then there needs to be a way to check the packet of data for correctness.

[1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/20...

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#92

Post by zaarn »

homakov wrote: post #59
vvillena wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare materials are what made some trackers great. Remember what.cd? That was the most comprehensive music catalogue ever. And it worked. Also, there's the issue of people finding rare source materials, but keeping them to themselves, because sharing is a hassle. Monetization would help incentivize these people.

Okay than just my two cents. I use torrents a lot and never had a problem finding what i needed, and i would certainly not pay a dime for some obscure per-bite streaming. Not in torrents.

I've had plenty of problems, especially more obscure material or material not in english/russian is often just plain not available. In one case, I needed an older version of knoppix not available on their website anymore but I had a torrent file. The download took 3 months to complete due to the single seeder of that file going offline for that time.

If you only download the popular fresh content like the latest Debian ISO or something like that, of course you never have problems.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#93

Post by keyserzose »

londons_explore wrote: post #88
namibj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They instead require seeding performance/behaviour that almost necessitates renting a seedbox.

I don't understand the sites that require a > 1.0 seed ratio... Like it's mathematically impossible for everyone to seed to > 1.0

It's possible because of freeleech downloads or finding the files elsewhere and seeding them, but > 1 ratio is very strict indeed.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#94

Post by rixtox »

brugeman wrote: post #91
rixtox wrote: post #90

I'm supprised no one has mentioned the fair exchange problem: if A, B engage in an exchange protocol, say A sends data to B while B paying to A, how to achieve fairness using an asynchornous protocol. Without a third party, either one of the two parties has to be in a position of advantage where it can choose to walk off without fulfilling his part of the contract. The problem still exists under "micro-transaction" s…

Great point. Not sure about state channels, but there are proposals for the Lightning Network. You could reveal a packet of data inside the payment confirmation itself, so it becomes atomic [1]. However, there are still issues: throughput, obviously, but then there needs to be a way to check the packet of data for correctness. [1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/20...

Yes, it's the basic idea of all the blockchain based implementations. The challenge here is you have to seal the data packet first, make a layer 2 commitment that has some kind of cryptographic binding to the data. Then you have to have a mechanism to atomically open the data while paying the contract. This can be done with some homomorphic properties of some cryptographic primitives but the computational cost is currently very high.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#95

Post by colonelcanoe »

rixtox wrote: post #90

I'm supprised no one has mentioned the fair exchange problem: if A, B engage in an exchange protocol, say A sends data to B while B paying to A, how to achieve fairness using an asynchornous protocol. Without a third party, either one of the two parties has to be in a position of advantage where it can choose to walk off without fulfilling his part of the contract. The problem still exists under "micro-transaction" s…

You could program the rules of the state channel used to provide payment exactly for the piece of the torrent provided. Like you point out, that would use a trusted third party to implement a fair exchange.

We considered doing that, but like you also point out, if you had to sign each piece of the torrent, it would slow throughput to a crawl.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#96

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

Findeton wrote: post #89
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder how normal, presumably honest, people go from "I can't watch my shows with the subtitles that I like" to "I'll just steal it."

Because we don't agree with copyright laws. When you steal something in the physical world, you are depriving someone of the stolen object. In the digital world that doesn't happen, you are just producing yet another copy. For this reason I can't agree with these laws where the government is giving someone/a company a monopoly on ideas or digital things, it's creating scarcity artificially. Patent and copyright laws…

sounds like some gymnastics

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#97

Post by rK5Q58 »

vvillena wrote: post #57
homakov wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't experience this problem much. If not found on any tracker, such a material is probably too rare for anyone to care about. Even with some monetization model in place, it would be unrealistic to keep all sorts of "rare" materials in the world to make $1 from a random stranger coming once a year. Anyway, I would't pay $1

Rare materials are what made some trackers great. Remember what.cd? That was the most comprehensive music catalogue ever. And it worked. Also, there's the issue of people finding rare source materials, but keeping them to themselves, because sharing is a hassle. Monetization would help incentivize these people.

I think this technology is spot on for private trackers. The token used doesnt need a monetary value. It's not about monetizing per se, its more gamifying seeding. Indeed, terms like «ratio-economy» is already widely used about the seed-what-you-use model most private trackers use. Im already paying for my downloaded bits, Im just not paying money - i pay with my ratio.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#99

Post by patrickaljord »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #71
patrickaljord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. I used to have a Netflix subscription here in France (not anymore), my wife is from Latin America and wanted to use English subtitles instead of French ones (and so did I), funny thing is, English subtitles were not available in France, the only way to get English subtitles was to use a proxy and a US Netflix account (not possible anymore as many proxies are blocked) or just use torrent. There are ma…

I always wonder how normal, presumably honest, people go from "I can't watch my shows with the subtitles that I like" to "I'll just steal it."

Oh but I was still paying for my netflix subscription at the time. So technically I was just stealing the subtitles license. When I did cut my Netflix subscription, I also stopped watching shows even on torrent, haven't watched a show since 2016 when I had my kids. Youtube, twitter, facebook and now tiktok offer free alternatives and are more entertaining in my opinion. Not to mention the heavy political agenda Netflix has been pushing on their shows lately, already get enough of that on social media, no need to also get it on my show when just looking for entertainment.
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