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Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

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Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#91

Post by wtf_is_up »

archagon wrote: post #37

This looks very nice! I'll have to give it a try soon. If anyone is interested, I've also taken a whirl at solving the problem of overcomplicated DAW interfaces, albeit in a more limited capacity. My first project in this vein is Composer's Sketchpad[1], which aims to explore "freehand composition" by letting users draw notes in strokes directly with their fingers or stylus, bending the pitch and adjusting the length…

I really like the concept of Composer's Sketchpad. I like to play around with FL Studio piano rolls, but it is a little overwhelming. Too bad I don't have any iOS devices because I'd love to mess with your app.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#92

Post by JuliusKaiser »

archagon wrote: post #37

This looks very nice! I'll have to give it a try soon. If anyone is interested, I've also taken a whirl at solving the problem of overcomplicated DAW interfaces, albeit in a more limited capacity. My first project in this vein is Composer's Sketchpad[1], which aims to explore "freehand composition" by letting users draw notes in strokes directly with their fingers or stylus, bending the pitch and adjusting the length…

WOW! My goal is to develop niche apps for the music professional market so I have a lot of old ideas and mountains of failed designs to go on when I say those two apps are fantastic. In composition courses we used to make sketches just like that to start a work, as well as make density graphs for Penderecki and company.

All I can say is I wish you the best, I think you have some great designs there.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#93

Post by jlarocco »

tomxor wrote: post #25
ssharp wrote: post #10

"Most of the DAW interfaces often seem overcomplicated, and they only tend to get more and more bloated over time." How much can you simplify the interface and still make it do everything producers want to do? Garageband simplified the interface quite a bit compared to Logic, but even that can get complicated and ultimately isn't as flexible as other DAWs. I've been a fairly loyal user of Sonar and FL Studio for over…

It is possible to simplify the interface by reducing the number of tools without necessarily removing functionality. The idea is to identify large sets of tools that can be replaced with a handful of powerful combinable tools to perform the same tasks - this is not always easy but if done well can end up not only simplifying UI but providing more powerful, intuitive tools and reducing unnecessary learning. I think Mo…

> It is possible to simplify the interface by reducing the number of tools without necessarily removing functionality.

Could you explain with an example?

I think what you're saying may be technically true, but not necessarily what most users want.

I'm most familiar with photo editing and retouching, and while the software can appear daunting, it all makes sense looking at it as a photographer and using it for a little while. I use both Capture One and DxO Optics for RAW processing and retouching, and I often read the forums forums for both, and I don't recall ever seeing complaints that there are too many options and tools.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#94

Post by psyc »

I like the idea. I'm a composer, and can never find a simple music sketch app that I like. Everything is either too complicated, too expensive, or some other kind of terrible. I guess Garage Band isn't too bad, but I still have trouble with it. My preferred way of working is with the built-in touch-screen sequencers in Korgs and Yamahas. That workflow is damned perfect. On the desktop, there hasn't been anything usable since Impulse Tracker.

I played around with your app for a while. I found the UI frustrating overall. I couldn't find any instructions. There are no tooltips. It needs tooltips at least. Copy/paste flummoxed me over and over again. I seemed to hit the "end" of the track after 10 measures?? I could make notes longer, but not shorter. After the first 4 toolbar commands, I couldn't figure out what any of the rest do.

I'd really love to have a nice desktop composition sketch app, with a piano roll just like this. Nobody can persuade me that anybody has done this right yet, so as far as I'm concerned you have no competition. I hope you'll keep working on this. I suggest working on the UI.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#95

Post by ssharp »

BaronSamedi wrote: post #72
Applejinx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is how much state you have to keep in your head. Something like Blender requires enormous state about even things like what key combinations mean in different contexts: it's a poster child for impossibly demanding state requirements. Something like the Flash pen tool is much simpler, but still absolutely requires you to maintain some state: clicking versus click-dragging, remembering not to close a shape by…

How about coding a song instead? With the right language or DSL it should be possible. Substitute a Music IDE for the DAW, maybe keep some visualizations (synced to the code of course). I suppose musicians are more comfortable with a visual metaphor. Still the over-the-top skeuomorphism doesn't seem that efficient to me compared to just coding it.

Some skeuomophic design makes more sends in DAWs, especially the mixer where you might be controlling it with an external controller.

That said, a lot of plugins and virtual instruments never left that world of design after most others moved on.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#96

Post by zensavona »

I just had a play with this. I must say, my favourite feature so far is the chord suggestion wheel (dunno if this interface has a name). A lot of the time I feel like when experimenting with chord progressions or in the beginning stages of writing a song I miss out on interesting chord combinations simply because when messing around on the piano I forget to use or try certain chords or variations. It's really nice to have this selection there (although including extended chords would be awesome!)

Also, I noticed you build it with JUCE. I'd be highly interested in a series or even very short writeup about how you made the ui and it's various components with JUCE. I haven't built anything nontrivial with it yet but audio (and as an extension, UI programming) is very interesting to me.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#97

Post by ryan-allen »

zensavona wrote: post #96

I just had a play with this. I must say, my favourite feature so far is the chord suggestion wheel (dunno if this interface has a name). A lot of the time I feel like when experimenting with chord progressions or in the beginning stages of writing a song I miss out on interesting chord combinations simply because when messing around on the piano I forget to use or try certain chords or variations. It's really nice to…

OH this is one of my favourite things (chord explorers), Ableton doesn't have one but Cubase does. I am surprised it isn't more of a feature elsewhere, as they solve the problem of 'I have to learn to play these chords to effectively compose with them'.

You don't have to be an expert player to use your ears to write harmonically interesting things as a result. I can't wait to get home and try this!

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#98

Post by zensavona »

ryan-allen wrote: post #97
zensavona wrote: post #96

I just had a play with this. I must say, my favourite feature so far is the chord suggestion wheel (dunno if this interface has a name). A lot of the time I feel like when experimenting with chord progressions or in the beginning stages of writing a song I miss out on interesting chord combinations simply because when messing around on the piano I forget to use or try certain chords or variations. It's really nice to…

OH this is one of my favourite things (chord explorers), Ableton doesn't have one but Cubase does. I am surprised it isn't more of a feature elsewhere, as they solve the problem of 'I have to learn to play these chords to effectively compose with them'. You don't have to be an expert player to use your ears to write harmonically interesting things as a result. I can't wait to get home and try this!

I had no idea cubase has this. I sometimes use a plugin called Cthulu (link below) to achieve a similar outcome, but the workflow is nowhere near as nice.

https://www.xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#99

Post by badosu »

MrLeap wrote: post #88
badosu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, pure data is a 'higher-level' sound programming environment, so it could be emacs.

Its hard for me to think about it as high level when you're adding sine waves together to make sounds.

My only knowledge of PD is from graphical interfaces that implement components using it, so my assumption was that Csound was lower-level due to my (brief) experience writing on it.

Re: Show HN: An attempt to rethink a music sequencer design

#100

Post by vortico »

badosu wrote: post #64
MrLeap wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's pure data in this analogy? https://puredata.info/ A hex editor?

Well, pure data is a 'higher-level' sound programming environment, so it could be emacs.

+1 Best analogy. The interface actually reminded me of emacs when I used to use PD.
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