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Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

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Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#81

Post by deepsun »

manishsharan wrote: post #17

I have been meaning to ask the observability experts this question: Why not dump all metrics , events and logs into Clickhouse ? and purge data as necessary? For small to medium sized businesses/solution ecosystem, will this be be enough ?

Very different tools, applications almost don't intersect actually.

ClickHouse is an analytical database (for events). Yes, you can do metrics in there (or PostgreSQL for that matter). Observability has their own needs, so specialized solutions work better, more integrations and out-of-the box tooling already provided.

With generic databases it's more like a constructor that you'd need to develop a lot to become workable. For example, let's say you have 50m active time series, with 1%/hour churn rate. What would be the database structure in ClickHouse? (my answer is that I don't know. I know mostly VictoriaMetrics, and there's no such question there, the structure is already implemented).

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#82

Post by deepsun »

kirankgollu wrote: post #60
mt42or wrote: post #59

VictoriaMetrics is still cheaper!

Oodle is a fully managed offering. Curious why you think Victoria Metrics Cloud is still cheaper. https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/ This translates to about $5.2 per 1k metrics, Oodle is $1 per 1k metrics! Am I missing something?

Hmm, where do you see $5.2?

I see $0.182/h/1M ts = $0.182 per 1k metrics (S.STARTER.A instance)

Also Oodle website says to "Contact for pricing beyond 5M". While VictoriaMetrics Cloud only starts at 1M (S.STARTER.A), and "Contact Us" starts at 125M active time series.

PS: time series is only one dimension, there's also storage size, retention, query/alerts frequency etc.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#83

Post by deepsun »

deepsun wrote: post #82
kirankgollu wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oodle is a fully managed offering. Curious why you think Victoria Metrics Cloud is still cheaper. https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/ This translates to about $5.2 per 1k metrics, Oodle is $1 per 1k metrics! Am I missing something?

Hmm, where do you see $5.2? I see $0.182/h/1M ts = $0.182 per 1k metrics (S.STARTER.A instance) Also Oodle website says to "Contact for pricing beyond 5M". While VictoriaMetrics Cloud only starts at 1M (S.STARTER.A), and "Contact Us" starts at 125M active time series. PS: time series is only one dimension, there's also storage size, retention, query/alerts frequency etc.

$0.253/h/1M = $0.182 per 1k metrics per month.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#84

Post by kirankgollu »

dengolius wrote: post #80
kirankgollu wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be nice to post a disclaimer if you are working on a competing offering before you post a comment. (for the benefit of everyone)

Sorry, I didn't understand your point... What I did wrong here? )

your comment said "no magic" and the links points to "#magic-behind-oodle". May be I misread your comment or you didn't mean that.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#85

Post by kirankgollu »

deepsun wrote: post #82
kirankgollu wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oodle is a fully managed offering. Curious why you think Victoria Metrics Cloud is still cheaper. https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/ This translates to about $5.2 per 1k metrics, Oodle is $1 per 1k metrics! Am I missing something?

Hmm, where do you see $5.2? I see $0.182/h/1M ts = $0.182 per 1k metrics (S.STARTER.A instance) Also Oodle website says to "Contact for pricing beyond 5M". While VictoriaMetrics Cloud only starts at 1M (S.STARTER.A), and "Contact Us" starts at 125M active time series. PS: time series is only one dimension, there's also storage size, retention, query/alerts frequency etc.

Oodle is a fully managed, supports high availability, so was comparing against the cluster mode of victoria metrics cloud offering.

RE: Victoria Metrics Pricing: Pls see https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/. The pricing that you are referring doesn't seem public, looks like you've to sign up to see that pricing. $190/month is a single node pricing. For any real use cases, you need HA and victoria metrics enterprise pricing for a cluster starts at $1300/month for 250k metrics. This translates to $5.2 per 1k metrics (5x more expensive than Oodle). For a real scale about ~2.5M or ~5M time series / hour, Oodle is around half the cost of victoria metrics.

RE: Pricing dimensions, we've simplified our pricing by indexing on a single dimension. We don't require our customers to choose machine type, RAM, CPU etc. There are other limits but for the most part, they don't matter so much in our pricing.

RE: Pricing tiers, anything more than $30-50k/year (>5M time series / hour), companies usually to talk with someone for volume discounts rather than go with online pricing.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#86

Post by kirankgollu »

deepsun wrote: post #83
deepsun wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, where do you see $5.2? I see $0.182/h/1M ts = $0.182 per 1k metrics (S.STARTER.A instance) Also Oodle website says to "Contact for pricing beyond 5M". While VictoriaMetrics Cloud only starts at 1M (S.STARTER.A), and "Contact Us" starts at 125M active time series. PS: time series is only one dimension, there's also storage size, retention, query/alerts frequency etc.

$0.253/h/1M = $0.182 per 1k metrics per month.

As suggested in earlier message, this pricing is only for single node. imo, this needs to be compared to cluster mode - any company with meaningful scale will need reliabilty and needs to run in cluster mode since you’d need your observability systems to be up and running when the rest of your systems are down.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#87

Post by hagen1778 »

rnjn wrote: post #65
kirankgollu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ClickHouse is great for logs and traces, however, for metrics, it is still in the early phase. ClickHouse is also a general purpose, real time analytics database. See clickhouse.com. Whereas Oodle is specifically built for end-to-end metrics observability.

Curious to know what you mean by "early phase" here.

ClickHouse recently got the support of TimeSeries table Engine [1]. It is marked as experimental, so yes - early stage. This engine is quite interesting, the data can be ingested via Prometheus remote write protocol. And read back via Prometheus remote read protocol. But reading back is the weakest part here, because Prometheus remote read requires sending blocks of data back to Prometheus, where Prometheus will unpack those blocks and do the filtering&transformations on its own. As you see, this doesn't allow leveraging the true power of ClickHouse - query performance.

Yes, you can use SQL to read metrics directly from ClickHouse tables. However, many people prefer the simplicity of PromQL compared to the flexibility of SQL. So until ClickHouse gets native PromQL support, it is in the early stages.

[1] https://clickhouse.com/docs/en/engines/table-engines/special...

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#88

Post by deepsun »

kirankgollu wrote: post #85
deepsun wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, where do you see $5.2? I see $0.182/h/1M ts = $0.182 per 1k metrics (S.STARTER.A instance) Also Oodle website says to "Contact for pricing beyond 5M". While VictoriaMetrics Cloud only starts at 1M (S.STARTER.A), and "Contact Us" starts at 125M active time series. PS: time series is only one dimension, there's also storage size, retention, query/alerts frequency etc.

Oodle is a fully managed, supports high availability, so was comparing against the cluster mode of victoria metrics cloud offering. RE: Victoria Metrics Pricing: Pls see https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/ . The pricing that you are referring doesn't seem public, looks like you've to sign up to see that pricing. $190/month is a single node pricing. For any real use cases, you need HA and victoria metrics ente…

Ah I see, I use single-node.

Although I see for C.XLARGE.HA they go down to $0.56 per 1k time-series per month, just not for the smallest instance. So looks like VictoriaMetrics can be 2x less expensive than Oodle on large scale.

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#89

Post by kirankgollu »

deepsun wrote: post #88
kirankgollu wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oodle is a fully managed, supports high availability, so was comparing against the cluster mode of victoria metrics cloud offering. RE: Victoria Metrics Pricing: Pls see https://victoriametrics.com/products/cloud/ . The pricing that you are referring doesn't seem public, looks like you've to sign up to see that pricing. $190/month is a single node pricing. For any real use cases, you need HA and victoria metrics ente…

Ah I see, I use single-node. Although I see for C.XLARGE.HA they go down to $0.56 per 1k time-series per month, just not for the smallest instance. So looks like VictoriaMetrics can be 2x less expensive than Oodle on large scale.

It's not a fair comparison. You can't compare the base tier pricing of Oodle offering with the high scale tier of victoria metrics. As you scale, volume benefits kick in just like the way they are for VM. It's a common wisdom that enterprise companies don't swipe credit cards beyond 50k/year. We request our customers to speak with us when they get to high scale tiers.

250k metrics - Oodle is 5x cheaper, < 5M metrics - Oodle 2-3x cheaper, beyond 5M - talk to us (our pricing will be competitive and will be better)

Re: Show HN: Oodle – serverless, fully-managed, drop-in replacement for Prometheus

#90

Post by deepsun »

kirankgollu wrote: post #89
deepsun wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I see, I use single-node. Although I see for C.XLARGE.HA they go down to $0.56 per 1k time-series per month, just not for the smallest instance. So looks like VictoriaMetrics can be 2x less expensive than Oodle on large scale.

It's not a fair comparison. You can't compare the base tier pricing of Oodle offering with the high scale tier of victoria metrics. As you scale, volume benefits kick in just like the way they are for VM. It's a common wisdom that enterprise companies don't swipe credit cards beyond 50k/year. We request our customers to speak with us when they get to high scale tiers. 250k metrics - Oodle is 5x cheaper, < 5M metrics…

Yep, all true.
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