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Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

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Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#81

Post by ibigb »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #46
IAmGraydon wrote: post #21

I'm not an audiophile in the obsessive-compulsive sense, but I've been recording music in my home studio for 20 years and I know my way around it. This sort of calibration is not ideal. Not only are you measuring with a device that has an imperfect response curve, but you are also measuring the room at a single monophonic point in space. The way that sound interacts with the room and your ears is far more complex tha…

> you're far better off learning how to treat the room properly Would you have some pointers on this? I've been looking into this and while I've found pointers on "what to do", what's missing is where to actually find the necessary panels and how to figure if they're actually worth anything.

You might look here: http://realtraps.com

You can probably reduce some room resonances.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#82

Post by zoltar »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #46
IAmGraydon wrote: post #21

I'm not an audiophile in the obsessive-compulsive sense, but I've been recording music in my home studio for 20 years and I know my way around it. This sort of calibration is not ideal. Not only are you measuring with a device that has an imperfect response curve, but you are also measuring the room at a single monophonic point in space. The way that sound interacts with the room and your ears is far more complex tha…

> you're far better off learning how to treat the room properly Would you have some pointers on this? I've been looking into this and while I've found pointers on "what to do", what's missing is where to actually find the necessary panels and how to figure if they're actually worth anything.

Here's some basic before/after examples that might be useful. This is kind of a deep rabbit hole. My dumb brain still dreams of blackbird studio c every once and a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8H0HFMylo#t=6m22s

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#83

Post by rodgerd »

OJFord wrote: post #26
drcongo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd also be relying very heavily on the microphone used to measure it.

That's the 'device with an imperfect response curve', I assume. In fairness, the readme does state: > A good microphone is needed, with a wide frequency range and preferably with a flat frequency response. By 'preferably' I assume it's implied that it can curve-fit (whatever's needed, I know next to nothing about this) to a non-flat microphone response, as long as it's known, but if it's flat then no need. If it's un…

Commercial systems that do this kind of room correction generally have a limited range of recommended microphones, and the more expensive (and hopefully better) ones will have the microphone calibrated and factored into the room correction - for example, Anthem's Room Correction (ARC) ships mics that have a serial number. You plug that into the ARC software, it looks up the factory profile of that specific mic, as it was recorded at build time, and weights the calibration for it.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#84

Post by colanderman »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #46
IAmGraydon wrote: post #21

I'm not an audiophile in the obsessive-compulsive sense, but I've been recording music in my home studio for 20 years and I know my way around it. This sort of calibration is not ideal. Not only are you measuring with a device that has an imperfect response curve, but you are also measuring the room at a single monophonic point in space. The way that sound interacts with the room and your ears is far more complex tha…

> you're far better off learning how to treat the room properly Would you have some pointers on this? I've been looking into this and while I've found pointers on "what to do", what's missing is where to actually find the necessary panels and how to figure if they're actually worth anything.

I've found https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/acoustic-treatment/ to be a well-written and informative guide.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#85

Post by simondotau »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #20

Isn't it basically what "DRC" does? (Digital Room Correction) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_room_correction I don't remember the exact order but way, way, way before the $10 K USD digital audio cable snake oil, audiophiles are going to say that DRC is the second single biggest thing that can enhance the quality of your setup (the first one being which speakers you're using and how you place them). Then source…

An objectivist audiophile would say that room correction is among the three or four grossly consequential parts of the audio chain. They are, in serial order:

0. Source material

1. Room correction DSP

2. Speakers (including subwoofers and crossover configuration)

3. Room acoustics (including positioning of speakers and listeners)

4. The human (ears, experience, expectations, ego, etc.)

All of the above are more consequential than anything else, assuming the core components are not total garbage, underspecified or malfunctioning. This includes the DAC and amplification.

Of the above list, I would place room correction at the bottom. (That still places it well above many things subjectivist audiophiles obsess over!) It is the cherry on top of a great system, not the means to achieving greatness. And it lets you get away with some things (most notably, mismatched speakers) to a greater extent than otherwise. But despite the name it can’t fix most real acoustic problems.

It can also make a system sound worse if it’s not used properly.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#86

Post by Schroedingersat »

qbonnard wrote: post #4

Newbie question: how do we know we can trust the microphone? It sounds like a chicken-and-egg problem to equalize speakers with an equalized microphone, but maybe microphones are simpler and can be assumed to be equalized ?

A microphone that is linear to a dB or so is far cheaper than a speaker that is linear to 6dB and room treatment that maintains that.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#87

Post by NGRhodes »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #21

I'm not an audiophile in the obsessive-compulsive sense, but I've been recording music in my home studio for 20 years and I know my way around it. This sort of calibration is not ideal. Not only are you measuring with a device that has an imperfect response curve, but you are also measuring the room at a single monophonic point in space. The way that sound interacts with the room and your ears is far more complex tha…

Calibrated (my Audyssey is +-1DB 20hz-20khz) mics do exist and calibration files do exist for some mics, plenty good enough considering how terrible the average house/apartment room is.

Your totally right about room treatment and why I don't spend more than the budget end of HiFi, because I know how terrible my room makes everything sound..

Ive measured a few rooms and sets of HiFi and the biggest issue I find is not the general frequency response, but room modes, they peak far more than even the frequency response from a cheap boom box. Without active EQ or a notch filter and extensive room treatment then trying to flatten out the response of a speaker is futile if you ignore the room modes. Add in transient and phase responses and you add additional challenges to getting good audio.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#88

Post by willis936 »

danuker wrote: post #75
Gracana wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "smoothing the spectrum" mean? What operations are being performed?

I'd guess: Fourier transform, a power density preserving blur convolution, then inverse Fourier transform. But I am not familiar with the field of signal processing.

That's my guess too but my hunch is that would sound like absolute crap. Intentional IMD. Something to experiment with.

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#89

Post by [deleted] »

timc3 wrote: post #66
lvl102 wrote: post #64

I highly suggest getting flat neutral speakers first. Preferably high end studio monitors. What would be interesting is if someone can work on music-specific optimization based on a handful of inferences and ML.

Nope, it's better to treat the room first, then invest in some quality monitors like Neumanns. Basic budget monitors will do great in treated room.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: HiFiScan, a Python app to optimize your loudspeakers

#90

Post by hug »

leeoniya wrote: post #33
OJFord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the 'device with an imperfect response curve', I assume. In fairness, the readme does state: > A good microphone is needed, with a wide frequency range and preferably with a flat frequency response. By 'preferably' I assume it's implied that it can curve-fit (whatever's needed, I know next to nothing about this) to a non-flat microphone response, as long as it's known, but if it's flat then no need. If it's un…

i always wondered, is it possible to take a cheaper mic or iems and "flatten" them via an eq, to perform nearly as well as professional gear that's 3x the price? i just picked up a pair of KZ AS06 iems [1] and my listening preference is U shaped (which is how these are dialed in out of the box), but i imagine with quality hardware and e.g. 3+ dedicated, drivers it should be possible to flatten them out in an eq. [1]…

Yes, but no, but yes.

AutoEq (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/) does something like this so... yes?

But targets various HRTF curves which aren't neutral or flat, and they usually aim for a Harman target of sorts, so no...

But there are some neutral-sounding curves that seek to just emulate pinna gain, so they have a ~3KHz peak which is required to 'emulate' the natural resonance of your ear, which you don't get naturally when you jam a driver all the way into it.

There's no AutoEq preset for the AS06s. Here's a representative sample targeting the 2019 Harman in-ear target for the KZ AS10s for funsies though: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/...

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