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Show HN: Ask a Dev

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Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#81

Post by dvt »

brucephillips wrote: post #78
dvt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solving a problem and providing a new, better way of doing something are really two different sides of the same coin. I'm going to contend that they are two fundamentally different things. Inventing the internal combustion engine and working at Honda on their 2019 model are two very different things.

This seems like a strawman. No one is arguing that the 20th iteration of a major auto model is providing a new way of doing things.

I am admittedly stretching the argument thin, but I still hope you see my point.

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#82

Post by brucephillips »

dvt wrote: post #80
brucephillips wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're going out of your way to avoid describing the value these products provided. Especially in your characterization of Google. Pinterest provides entertainment, product discovery, and community. Snapchat enabled a new type of communication by removing self consciousness. Airbnb provides quality lodging at low prices. Facebook provided authenticity, exclusivity, and increased information density thro…

> Pinterest provides entertainment, product discovery, and community. This is kind of a non-statement. You could say that just about any internet based social network startup provides "community" and "entertainment" -- and yet many completely fail. This is quintessential grasping at straws and a posteriori reasoning. > Snapchat enabled a new type of communication by removing self consciousness. So did Yik Yak, so doe…

Just to hone in on one example, do you really not see any benefit to using Airbnb over Craigslist for short term rentals? Even in the beginning? I can argue the other side, I think quite clearly, but I first want to make sure that's actually what you're claiming because it seems so demonstrably untrue.

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#83

Post by Hasz »

dvt wrote: post #80
brucephillips wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're going out of your way to avoid describing the value these products provided. Especially in your characterization of Google. Pinterest provides entertainment, product discovery, and community. Snapchat enabled a new type of communication by removing self consciousness. Airbnb provides quality lodging at low prices. Facebook provided authenticity, exclusivity, and increased information density thro…

> Pinterest provides entertainment, product discovery, and community. This is kind of a non-statement. You could say that just about any internet based social network startup provides "community" and "entertainment" -- and yet many completely fail. This is quintessential grasping at straws and a posteriori reasoning. > Snapchat enabled a new type of communication by removing self consciousness. So did Yik Yak, so doe…

Maybe more specifically, the value of all these networks lies in the network part. The tricky part is convincing the people that will use it to become part of the product.

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#84

Post by brucephillips »

dvt wrote: post #81
brucephillips wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a strawman. No one is arguing that the 20th iteration of a major auto model is providing a new way of doing things.

I am admittedly stretching the argument thin, but I still hope you see my point.

I don't. What's the difference between solving a problem and finding a better way of doing things?

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#85

Post by Mandatum »

tshedor wrote: post #61
andrewstuart wrote: post #56

"Hey why use this? It's the same as Slack?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as IRC?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as a mailing list?" These are the sorts of things people say to lazily kill any new idea. "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as Alta Vista." "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as grep." People say this stuff because it makes them feel smart. Folks, not al…

Our goal is explicitly not to communicate via the Internet. Sure we'll promote online and use a Slack group to organize our mentors, but we're not taking on SO or IRC or Slack. There's something to be said about coworking spaces and working remote from a cafe. We crave the company of other people.

This is where Meetups.com fits in. But this area has kind of migrated away from the traditional discussions (which now happen on places like here, Reddit, Slack). There's usually too many recruiters, managers, vendors and sales people involved. I'm not saying these people are necessarily bad for the environment, but to cater for a particular type of discussion - they detract from it.

How many conferences or meetups have you attended where a significant portion of the audience doesn't understand what's being talking about on stage (usually because "business" and "technical" tracks aren't broken up)?

I think there's definitely a space for this to succeed in. Look forward to attending.

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#86

Post by ad_hominem »

andrewstuart wrote: post #56

"Hey why use this? It's the same as Slack?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as IRC?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as a mailing list?" These are the sorts of things people say to lazily kill any new idea. "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as Alta Vista." "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as grep." People say this stuff because it makes them feel smart. Folks, not al…

Don't forget the most famous one, "Why use this [Dropbox]? It's the same as FTP or email"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#87

Post by andrewstuart »

ad_hominem wrote: post #86
andrewstuart wrote: post #56

"Hey why use this? It's the same as Slack?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as IRC?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as a mailing list?" These are the sorts of things people say to lazily kill any new idea. "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as Alta Vista." "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as grep." People say this stuff because it makes them feel smart. Folks, not al…

Don't forget the most famous one, "Why use this [Dropbox]? It's the same as FTP or email" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

Man that has to be framed and put on a wall for all entrepreneurs trying to catch a break.

My original message could not be more strongly emphasised than by reading the "but hey I can just use FTP" in that thread.

Here's the bit that I love the best:

"It does not seem very "viral" or income-generating. "

That must be the quote of the century. DropBox is one of the MOST viral and revenue generating ideas there was - but here on HN when DropBox is announced, the idea killers all pop up quickly with "Hey this thing is the same as some unix utility and won't make money".

Just magnificent.

Also classic: "you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem"

I love this - it's such a techhead way of thinking - you don't need an integrated easy to use product, all you need to do it type 40 arcane commands for exactly the same thing - it's trivial!

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#88

Post by newfoundglory »

andrewstuart wrote: post #56

"Hey why use this? It's the same as Slack?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as IRC?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as a mailing list?" These are the sorts of things people say to lazily kill any new idea. "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as Alta Vista." "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as grep." People say this stuff because it makes them feel smart. Folks, not al…

And if someone asked you why to use Google instead of grep, would you not have an answer?

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#89

Post by sooheon »

dvt wrote: post #81
brucephillips wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a strawman. No one is arguing that the 20th iteration of a major auto model is providing a new way of doing things.

I am admittedly stretching the argument thin, but I still hope you see my point.

Whenever you can make a point by stretching an analogy to an extreme, I think it's possible to imagine stretching the analogy the other direction. In this case, the distinction seems to be a matter of degrees, rather than a fundamental difference.

Re: Show HN: Ask a Dev

#90

Post by nol13 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #56

"Hey why use this? It's the same as Slack?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as IRC?" "Hey why use this, it's the same as a mailing list?" These are the sorts of things people say to lazily kill any new idea. "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as Alta Vista." "Hey why use this new fangled 'google.com'? It's the same as grep." People say this stuff because it makes them feel smart. Folks, not al…

I think in general, "fuck the haters" is one of the most important lessons there is to learn in life, the sooner the better. Still working on this myself of course.
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