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Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

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Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#82

I've had ideas of where we abstract the syntax of a program language in a way that there would be multiple 'views' of the code. What if you could run a program that would translate Bato programs into Ruby and vice versa? The variables would be a hard part so maybe it would hint you at a translation of it or you could add a hint yourself. Or what if you had a language that had a javascript like syntax and a lisp like…

I read about isomorf yesterday... it might be kinda like what you're looking for? Possibly relevant blog post from Brian McKenna, too: https://brianmckenna.org/blog/polymorphic_programming [1] https://isomorf.io/

This sort of translation is definitely part of our syntactic sugar mission. If anyone wants to beta test particular languages for us just reach out.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pinyin input for Chinese is similarly phonetic. Supposedly there is a method popular in Taiwan based on strokes. Reading characters is a bit faster, but only because you had to memorize 10,000 of them already. People reading English will similarly chunk many of the words they are familiar with so that they are not so much read as they are recognized.

This is also a stroke system (Wubi) that's more popular and faster in China too. Maybe it's a related system to the one in Taiwan. Pinyin makes sense only if you're already familiar with the Latin alphabet and how they sound. Those are literally foreign concepts to the Chinese.

Pinyin IMEs are still much more popular than Wubi IMEs because of the latter's steep learning curve. Pinyin was designed by Chinese for Chinese learners, and is only incidentally used by westerners. It is based on the latin alphabet yes, but its how all the school kids in China learn standard pronunciation of mandarin words (indeed, this is pinyin's main purpose). So pinyin isn't really a foreign concept to any Chinese who has went to school since the 60s.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#84
post #75

There are already way too many languages on this planet being kept alive by all those pathetic governments limiting their citizens to their own (little) country. English should already long be the World's 1st language for every human being IMAO. I'm Dutch and it took me ages of struggling to get to my current level of English and I'm still learning.. So, this feels like a huge step back and a great way for Filipino d…

I agree that the would already should have had a lingua franca, but I must say that it English is far from the best candidate. The language is huge, and the grammar is full of irregularities. Pronunciation must be learnt case by case (why are "women" pronounced "wee-men"?). (also recall this cute poem: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/english-lesson.htm... )

This is a common complaint, and one the purist in me is sympathetic to. These days, I have a more nuanced perspective on English.

Yes, English is huge and complex. However, the things we are trying to express are themselves huge and complex. A big language gives us many many colors to paint with. I mean different things when I say I am "sad", "down", "blue", "disconsolate", or "woebegone". There is a learning burden on English speakers to loading such a large language in their heads, of course. But, in return, we get a higher-bandwidth communication protocol.

The complaints about pronunciation are also common and valid in many cases. Things like the Great Vowel Shift lead to words that no longer sound like they are written for little useful reason. But in some cases, pronunication varies between similar-spelled words because their etymology is wildly different.

A word's spelling carries both pronunciation and meaning. When the pronunciation varies, it is often because the underlying morphemes are different even though they are spelled the same. This means the spelling doesn't teach you to pronounce it as well as you like, but once you can pronounce it, the pronunciation helps you know what it means.

And, as a lingua franca for the world, I think English is great. English is riddled with loanwords and is constantly assimilating terms from other languages that can't already be expressed well. In many senses, it's a global language because it is the set union of them.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#85
post #75

There are already way too many languages on this planet being kept alive by all those pathetic governments limiting their citizens to their own (little) country. English should already long be the World's 1st language for every human being IMAO. I'm Dutch and it took me ages of struggling to get to my current level of English and I'm still learning.. So, this feels like a huge step back and a great way for Filipino d…

By the number of speakers, some form of Chinese would probably win hands down. In any case, Hindi and Spanish (the latter with arguably much more regular grammar and spelling) would still take over English.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#86
post #13

One thing I'm completely ignorant of is how to people from countries where non-latin alphabets are write code? Eg if you're Chinese, Arabic even Russian do you have to do everything in English and English characters? I'd hope there is a Unicode mapping into other characters - is there any language that supports this? Even for libraries would be nice.

Russian reporting in. I think everyone here who writes code knows Latin alphabet. It's just a basic requirement - it's a given that if you want to code you'd better learn English, let alone alphabet. In schools, kids learn to code using Algol-like language with identifiers in Cyrillic (essentially, Russian) abbreviations, e.g. "нц для i от 1 до n" rather than "for i := 1 until n do", but even here you see Latin lette…

I'd like to add that Latin alphabet is definitely studied in Russian schools early on, both for mathematics and for the required study of a foreign language (invariably one using the Latin alphabet).

The number of keywords in a modern programming language is not very large, and most are short, so even a beginner with no prior knowledge of English would not have very hard time using something like Python (or Java, or Pascal, or whatever they use at their school).

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#87
post #79
post #13

One thing I'm completely ignorant of is how to people from countries where non-latin alphabets are write code? Eg if you're Chinese, Arabic even Russian do you have to do everything in English and English characters? I'd hope there is a Unicode mapping into other characters - is there any language that supports this? Even for libraries would be nice.

I looked for some Chinese developer on GitHub. This is the most Chinese source file I found https://github.com/hzxie/city-picker/blob/master/city-picker... Variables in English, strings in Chinese when they have to (it manages a list of city names). I could work on that code and I don't know Chinese. This is more or less what I see in code here in Italy. Sometimes somebody slips a variable name in Italian but among p…

Chinese is hard to transliterate to English, because there's no nice way to express the tone, and even with tones, there's a number of homophones. To express a precise meaning, you either use hanji, or proper English words.

Other languages, like Russian or Japanese, can be transliterated pretty unequivocally, so transliterated identifiers are often found in source code, especially in business-related identifiers where a precise translation may not even exist.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#88
post #78
post #13

One thing I'm completely ignorant of is how to people from countries where non-latin alphabets are write code? Eg if you're Chinese, Arabic even Russian do you have to do everything in English and English characters? I'd hope there is a Unicode mapping into other characters - is there any language that supports this? Even for libraries would be nice.

قلب is a Scheme-like programming language that is written entirely in Arabic. http://nas.sr/%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8/ https://github.com/nasser/---

Wow! Right-to-left languages don't just have to alter the glyphs, they also face the questions of different indentation, different argument order (does `a->b` still express the same meaning?), etc.

Re: Show HN: Bato – A Filipino Programming Language

#90
post #62
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Philippines here. I'm a native English speaker and my Tagalog is pretty bad, but it looks like it's Ruby with Filipino syntax.

It is just Ruby. Everything is just alias-ed: e.g. https://github.com/jjuliano/bato/blob/master/lib/bato/core_e...

Indeed. The submission's title should then be changed perhaps to "Bato - the Ruby programming language in Filipino/Tagalog," or perhaps "Bato - Ruby made Filipino/Tagalog."
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