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Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

warp.dev

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Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#731

Post by Groxx »

warent wrote: post #445
encryptluks2 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't human interaction errors be left up to the user to report, as opposed to software sending sensitive information to a third-party?

No data on this but instinctively it seems, given alternatives, most people abandon some buggy software rather than patiently reporting problems and waiting for it to get better.

Yeah. User reporting has a very obvious and very strong survivorship bias. Plus the people who take the time to send in a report are a rather small niche, so you have pretty strong bias even if you exclude people who leave.

Always-on metrics are massively higher quality data. They don't collect the same kind of data in many cases, but they can reveal a lot of things that never get reported. They also don't suffer from the well-established pattern of people not accurately reporting their own behavior when asked / polled (stronger when asking about future behavior, but it applies in all cases).

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#732

Post by zachlloyd »

0des wrote: post #703
Kalium wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mince words, but so far you've made a very basic series of unforced errors on both privacy and security. This is perhaps to be expected, as glancing at your About page, you don't seem to have any security or privacy specialists on staff. I don't even see a security page or contact info. Warp is starting to read like a Product-driven startup. The kind where people figure security and privacy are little features…

There is a lot of constructive value in this comment, I hope it is internalized and thought about

For sure - one of my main takeaways from our ShowHN is that there's a ton of reasonable concern around login, telemetry, and open source that we need to address. We are going to come back to HN as we do that.

The HN community has a different default perspective than I have on a lot of these issues, but a perspective that matters to a ton.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#733

Post by zachlloyd »

nlh wrote: post #462

This is perhaps slightly orthogonal to the main discussion here on this thread, but I have a question for Zach (and the various engineers posting on this thread): Did you guys talk to real-world users while building this and before this launch? This whole blow-up re: your telemetry / open sourcey'ness seems like it could have been avoided. I'm curious if you actually floated these ideas with real world users and a) e…

We spoke with a lot of users (someone mentioned our discord which has thousands of members) and there are thousands of developers using Warp every day (prior to this ShowHN).

We also were expecting some of this response from the HN community, and understand it.

The short answer to your question is that different developers care about different things. A lot of developers are OK with login, telemetry etc (we are not the only tool that has these things), and they exist in our case because it helps us produce a better product experience.

That said, I don't want to dismiss your question - we needed to do a better job understanding the perspective of more developers, and the response on HN has made that very clear. We are going to take the feedback and adjust course.

Thank you!

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#734

Post by robertlagrant »

michaelmrose wrote: post #247
robertlagrant wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point - Microsoft products practically created the modern security industry. They're experts.

Did you mean that old school Microsoft was so badly insecure that they created a massive opportunity for security professionals.

I did mean that, yes.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#735

Post by adamrezich »

monkeytaco wrote: post #106
alokedesai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question! We did an initial benchmark of scrolling back in July against Terminal, iTerm, Hyper, Kitty, and Alacritty, if you’re interested: https://www.warp.dev/blog/how-warp-works . We started by forking Alacritty's model and parser and because we have a similar architecture (Rust-based, rendered on the GPU) we should generally be at, or near, the performance of Alacritty.

I just ran a quick test using Casey Muratori's termbench ( https://github.com/cmuratori/termbench ) you are an order of magnitude slower than Alacritty, and also significantly slower than iTerm. Warp also locks up pretty severely and only shows a new frame once every few seconds during most of the run. Alacritty CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9880H CPU @ 2.30GHz VT support: no ManyLine: 1.5670s (0.0399gb/s) LongLine: 1.12…

thanks for posting this—no idea why every new terminal released today doesn't test against termbench and/or take a look at refterm these days, that's the first thing I would do.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#736

Post by Kalium »

zachlloyd wrote: post #732
0des wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of constructive value in this comment, I hope it is internalized and thought about

For sure - one of my main takeaways from our ShowHN is that there's a ton of reasonable concern around login, telemetry, and open source that we need to address. We are going to come back to HN as we do that. The HN community has a different default perspective than I have on a lot of these issues, but a perspective that matters to a ton.

The specific concerns identified here can be thought of as symptoms. I invite you to contemplate what cause they might share. Addressing specific issues around telemetry, openness, and logins without fixing the underlying organizational concerns will leave you playing whack-a-mole forever.

Since you get our collective concerns, I look forward to seeing how you address the organizational issues here.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#739

Post by bitwize »

cercatrova wrote: post #112

If you want to use a terminal that is actually open source and doesn't have telemetry, much less only available via signing in with GitHub, use Alacritty, also written in Rust and cross platform. https://github.com/alacritty/alacritty

Or just use xterm. It's blazing fast and even supports GPU acceleration if you are using a video driver that uses Xorg's GLAMOR acceleration framework. It has close to the lowest latency of any X terminal, as well. It has a reputation for being slow because it actually commits each character or terminal command to the display, you know, like a real terminal would. If you set the fastScroll X resource to true, xterm will behave like other terminal emulators and enable a speed hack that makes it skip display updates.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#740

Post by lodovic »

crummy wrote: post #481
nlh wrote: post #462

This is perhaps slightly orthogonal to the main discussion here on this thread, but I have a question for Zach (and the various engineers posting on this thread): Did you guys talk to real-world users while building this and before this launch? This whole blow-up re: your telemetry / open sourcey'ness seems like it could have been avoided. I'm curious if you actually floated these ideas with real world users and a) e…

Is it possible that this is blowing up only on HN and the privacy thing is not regarded as so important in other communities?

Don't know. I downloaded the image, installed it and was greeted by a mandatory login. Next step was uninstall and delete the dmg image. What a waste of time.
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