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Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

30u30.fyi

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Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#71

Post by afavour »

refulgentis wrote: post #67
YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #64

Reactions to this are a bit curious. It's a satirical comment on how (presumably) initially well-intentioned younger founder-types get swept up in / by perverse incentives. The implication is that younger people who are still figuring out who they are and coming into their own may be more susceptible to these kinds of incentive traps. The first section that showcases the fraud that has been committed is something I h…

I think it’s because it’s slightly obvious it was vibe(coded && written). Starts looking like low effort libel, punching down, more than some clever joke x a statistics exercise Put another way: the Drake equation, this ain’t.

Punching down? To companies worth twenties of billions of dollars?

The impulse to label everything a “startup” and thus a smolbean little guy is fascinating.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#72

Post by misiti3780 »

itsankur wrote: post #29
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #5

The Nikola founder, and Anthony Levandowski for that matter (seems to have gone under the radar), have got to be the most egregious case of corruption and pay-for-play. It's so depressing that no one can do anything about it.

Levandowski is back with TK at Atoms

it's clear now his self-driving technology was never going to work at uber.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#73

Post by rdevilla »

YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #64

Reactions to this are a bit curious. It's a satirical comment on how (presumably) initially well-intentioned younger founder-types get swept up in / by perverse incentives. The implication is that younger people who are still figuring out who they are and coming into their own may be more susceptible to these kinds of incentive traps. The first section that showcases the fraud that has been committed is something I h…

It can be very difficult to say no to these incentives when they are presented.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#74

Post by estearum »

YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #64

Reactions to this are a bit curious. It's a satirical comment on how (presumably) initially well-intentioned younger founder-types get swept up in / by perverse incentives. The implication is that younger people who are still figuring out who they are and coming into their own may be more susceptible to these kinds of incentive traps. The first section that showcases the fraud that has been committed is something I h…

Eh, I think selection effects are more prevalent than an earnest good faith actor who got swept up into perverse incentives.

Forbes 30u30 is a clarion call for the most ambitiously Machiavellian among us.

They’re not subject to any different incentives than the rest of us. But they’d certainly have a higher rate of sociopaths and more garden variety Machiavellis than genpop.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#75

Post by DetroitThrow »

refulgentis wrote: post #67
YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #64

Reactions to this are a bit curious. It's a satirical comment on how (presumably) initially well-intentioned younger founder-types get swept up in / by perverse incentives. The implication is that younger people who are still figuring out who they are and coming into their own may be more susceptible to these kinds of incentive traps. The first section that showcases the fraud that has been committed is something I h…

I think it’s because it’s slightly obvious it was vibe(coded && written). Starts looking like low effort libel, punching down, more than some clever joke x a statistics exercise Put another way: the Drake equation, this ain’t.

You misunderstand what "punching down" or "libel" mean.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#76

Post by jedberg »

This is funny, because I know a bunch of 30 under 30s, and I've invested in a few. There is a strong overlap between 30 under 30 and YC founders.

I consider myself a good judge of character, because not one of the one's I've invested in has committed fraud!

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#77

Post by kelnos »

The "watchlist" made me a bit uncomfortable. I get that it's satire, but putting real people's names in a list of people you're (even jokingly) watching for fraud, and assigning a "risk factor" to them (even/especially if they acknowledge it's made up) borders on defamation in my book.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#79

Post by tdb7893 »

seamossfet wrote: post #8

Some of these really don't make sense. The implication that Cursor is a fraudulent company is a little weird considering they actually have real users. Like sure, is it a VS code fork with agents stapled to it? Yes. But are they on the same scale as most of the people mentioned? Ehh probably not. It reads more like a hit piece from someone with a grudge against random SF companies than anything else.

Maybe it was added after your comment but that section has a warning box calling the score a "deliberately absurd formula" and saying "this is comedy" in literal bold letters at the top. No one thinks it's serious and it's even clearly labeled as a joke just in case.

Re: Show HN: 30u30.fyi – Is your startup founder on Forbes' most fraudulent list?

#80

Post by sillysaurusx »

estearum wrote: post #74
YossarianFrPrez wrote: post #64

Reactions to this are a bit curious. It's a satirical comment on how (presumably) initially well-intentioned younger founder-types get swept up in / by perverse incentives. The implication is that younger people who are still figuring out who they are and coming into their own may be more susceptible to these kinds of incentive traps. The first section that showcases the fraud that has been committed is something I h…

Eh, I think selection effects are more prevalent than an earnest good faith actor who got swept up into perverse incentives. Forbes 30u30 is a clarion call for the most ambitiously Machiavellian among us. They’re not subject to any different incentives than the rest of us. But they’d certainly have a higher rate of sociopaths and more garden variety Machiavellis than genpop.

I was curious to pin down the definition of Machiavellian:

> Manipulation & Deceit: Using charm, lies, and calculated moves to influence others.

> Lack of Empathy: A cold, detached, and unemotional demeanor that disregards the feelings of others.

> Strategic Long-Term Planning: Unlike impulsive psychopaths, high-Machs are patient, planning, and can delay gratification to ensure success.

> Cynical Worldview: Believing that people are inherently weak, untrustworthy, and that "the ends justify the means".

> Low Affect: Possessing limited emotional experience, often leading to a detached, "puppet-master" role rather than seeking the spotlight.

The only traits that seem bad are the lying and lack of empathy. The rest seem neutral (low emotional experience is something we hackers tend to identify with), sensible (random people tend to be untrustworthy), or admirable (delayed gratification).

Using charm and calculated moves to influence others isn’t a bad thing. It’s the basis of flattery.

I wish there was a positive version of Machiavellian which cut the lies and lack of empathy. Those are genuinely bad.

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