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Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

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Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#71
post #58

Actually if this had a good export feature, this could be a very useful tool for other level designers to start crafting their imaginary worlds in a way that those worlds make logical sense. Especially if you could mod in/script/configure strange flora/fauna, this could be a great tool.

Do you have any idea of what you'd want to import it into? I get this feedback a lot, but I'm unsure what formats would be most useful- there are a lot of different heightmap / GIS formats to choose from.

if you could export this to unity. It is hugely time expensive to generate realistic terrain, be nice if the water linked in with something like R.A.M 2019 then it would be really quite awesome.

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#72
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of us prefer open ended sandboxes/simulators like Minecraft, C:S, flight sims. Following game designer gets boring fast, setting own goals is always fun Speaking of CS, I wish this simulator had heightmap export.

this I might gamify it a little bit more, but personally I love the fun that comes from exploring a set of mechanics by yourself without anyone telling you what you're trying to achieve. My aim is to build a set of simulation mechanics that are accurate enough to teach you a little bit about how the processes work in real life but also responsive enough to let you play around with them and create what you'd like.

Imagine C:S but terrain changes gradually as it would in real life...

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the original Minecraft.

What is the "original" Minecraft? Infiniminer? That's so far removed from what folks understand when the name is used I think I can be excused for not understanding it as that.

The Minecraft version that got succesful, had no story (and the one I played back then).

The story and everything else that later came, was an afterthought. The point is, that it was fun for me and quite a lot of other people, without all that and just the sandbox. But yes, you are excused ...

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#74

It looks really cool and I'd love to play it but I don't have a Windows PC. Any chance you have plans to make it available on Linux/Steam Deck?

Works fine under proton for me - have you turned on the steam option to use a compatibility layer for games that haven't been tested?

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#75
post #44
post #8

I like poking around with these sorts of sandboxes, but in order to gamify it, you might need some objectives, limitations and planning goals, eg: - you have a limited amount of some mineral or rock that erodes quicker or slower than others, and you need to move water from one location to another. - there is a magma chamber growing under a mountain. Move the villagers out of harms way / destroy enemies. - introduce s…

From Dust played with the idea of terrain manipulation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk4hRWD6BT8 I played it on the Xbox 360, but it's on Steam as well. https://store.steampowered.com/app/33460/From_Dust/

thanks for suggesting this! I bought "populous: the beginning" just a few weeks ago, didn't know there was a modern variant!

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#76

I've myself tried to create a small simulation of water and erosion, and although very fun I found it extremely hard to implement. (so well done to you!) Is it a grid based system underneath? How do you calculate water displacement, is it with a vector field? anything else you'd like to share about the implementation?

The basic technique is from a research paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4295561_Fast_Hydrau...

My first attempt at creating a simulation of water and erosion before I saw this paper was pretty bad as well.

Yes, it's a grid based system. When you choose map size (e.g. 1024x1024) that's the resolution of the underlying simulation. My refinement of this approach is there is an extra step that "smooths" everything out. The vertex points for rendering are offset depending on how the water flows, which allows rivers to appear to flow at angles other than 90 degrees. Without this, it would either be very blocky or cover a much smaller area- there are other implementations of that paper floating around and the scale is an order of magnitude less, as a river needs to be many grid points across. In my implementation, you can get a nice looking river from a sequence of single points.

The drawback is this complicates a lot of other things. E.g. you can no longer easily tell what the height is at a point on the map is- there is no easy way to know what vertices to interpolate between since they can be offset in different directions. So when rendering trees, there's a whole GPU calculation to produce a separate data layer just to know what height the ground they're sitting on is at. But it's worth it to get a map that covers a big area with a full water flow simulation.

In general terms, the simulation is done as a series of grids of values (called layers, in reality just textures on the GPU) and operations that take some of them as input to generate another. Some layers persist always (e.g. the water flow) and update themselves iteratively. Other layers are produced on the fly when needed, and can be at different resolutions. E.g. you zoom into an area of the map- the water layer is read to determine the biome layer for just that part of the map. The water layer is read to determine the heights layer I talked about previously. Then the biome layer, water layer and heights layer are combined into a trees layer where one grid vertex is one possible instance of a tree. The values represent whether a tree is there, the position of its base, the type of tree, etc.

That's used as input for the rendering system, there's a mesh that uses that trees layer to render all the trees. It's also used as input for the animals system, so the animals walk around the trees, etc. It's basically a big dependency graph of data layers and the operations needed to generate them. Most of the work so far has been building all that tooling and getting it running asynchronously so the game doesn't lag if it takes multiple frames to generate what is needed.

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#77

Do you as a dev have to do anything to make it available on GeForce Now?

Yes, opt-in to the Steam Cloud Play (as the game is on Steam), but then Valve manually have a whitelist as well so you'd need to get approved by them. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/cloudgaming

Thanks for this info.

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#78
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite aspect of this game is that it’s not actually a game, and more like a zen garden. Adding more game elements would ruin that aspect.

There is no reason, why you cannot have both.

There is: developer time and focus. Not everything needs to be gamified and have "player retention", etc.

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#79
post #76

I've myself tried to create a small simulation of water and erosion, and although very fun I found it extremely hard to implement. (so well done to you!) Is it a grid based system underneath? How do you calculate water displacement, is it with a vector field? anything else you'd like to share about the implementation?

The basic technique is from a research paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4295561_Fast_Hydrau... My first attempt at creating a simulation of water and erosion before I saw this paper was pretty bad as well. Yes, it's a grid based system. When you choose map size (e.g. 1024x1024) that's the resolution of the underlying simulation. My refinement of this approach is there is an extra step that "smooths" ev…

Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough response, I appreciate. Really interesting stuff!

Re: Show HN: Terra Firma, a playable erosion simulation

#80

It looks really cool and I'd love to play it but I don't have a Windows PC. Any chance you have plans to make it available on Linux/Steam Deck?

Works fine under proton for me - have you turned on the steam option to use a compatibility layer for games that haven't been tested?

I did not know about that option!
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