I thought they were called Epsilons.
"They are happy to be where they are, and would not be happy to be where we are."
Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
71–80 of 85 posts
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is how the sausage get's made. If you work inside the meat industry, the room where animals get slaughtered is called the kill chamber. It's not called the "cattle life transition chamber" because it is self-aware and it's better to call a spade a spade.
> it's better to call a spade a spade Speaking of political correctness..
It's fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_a_spade_a_spade
Any concern over it is very recent and ahistorical. Like the false etymologies of "rule of thumb", but far less well-established (and hopefully it remains poorly-established—there's plenty of justified language-policing, we don't need to make up reasons to do more of it)
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#73This is essentially how the young lady's illustrated primer works in The Diamond Age.
I am currently reading this book! :)
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is how the sausage get's made. If you work inside the meat industry, the room where animals get slaughtered is called the kill chamber. It's not called the "cattle life transition chamber" because it is self-aware and it's better to call a spade a spade.
> it's better to call a spade a spade Speaking of political correctness..
> Speaking of political correctness.
Ironically your statement is an example of “political correctness gone mad” for me at least.
It’s a metaphor about shovels, there isn’t anything politically incorrect about it. Someone has just dreamed up an alternative meaning to be offended about.
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#75I thought they were called Epsilons.
"Every one works for every one else. We can't do without any one. Even Epsilons are useful. We couldn't do without Epsilons."
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#76> Outsource tedious, repetitive and boring work to our workforce in just a couple of clicks. This is exactly how you create an environment that is just asking for regulation and rightly so if you show such disregard for other people. Explicitly treating human laborers in more-or-less the same way you treat a machine is unethical design as well as being an ugly and harmful philosophy. You are literally building a syst…
You really made me consider the ethics associated to this type of project.
I'm curious about your thoughts about an internal questions I had in my head.
What is different from this than say hired labor for picking up produce or something to that extent?
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#77Pricing?
Maybe they forgot?
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#78> Outsource tedious, repetitive and boring work to our workforce in just a couple of clicks. This is exactly how you create an environment that is just asking for regulation and rightly so if you show such disregard for other people. Explicitly treating human laborers in more-or-less the same way you treat a machine is unethical design as well as being an ugly and harmful philosophy. You are literally building a syst…
> You are literally building a system that enables dehumanizing labor
As opposed to the rest of us building systems that will put thousands out of jobs en masse?
Sure, there should be regulation regarding minimum pay and such. But an idea like this is not unethical on its own. It's unethical when combined with a society that is prepped to view automation as a danger instead of a savior, because the moonshot idea that we could just work less in the information age seems to be obliterated at this point.
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#79> Outsource tedious, repetitive and boring work to our workforce in just a couple of clicks. This is exactly how you create an environment that is just asking for regulation and rightly so if you show such disregard for other people. Explicitly treating human laborers in more-or-less the same way you treat a machine is unethical design as well as being an ugly and harmful philosophy. You are literally building a syst…
You really made me consider the ethics associated to this type of project. I'm curious about your thoughts about an internal questions I had in my head. What is different from this than say hired labor for picking up produce or something to that extent?
There's a difference between fulfilling work and drudgery in every domain.
I've worked a few very dehumanizing programming jobs where I didn't have any agency and just worked to someone else's instructions without any room for input. Some people enjoy programming against a clear specification but I don't think anyone really wants to be a code monkey[0].
I think managers and job creators (like those building products in this space) need to think carefully about the humans they create jobs for. Just because someone is willing to do a soul destroying job for some amount of money doesn't mean that the job's designer is freed from the duty to consider the impacts of the job itself. Jobs are, after all, not just a contract between inanimate objects but context of work for human beings - efficiency and economics can't be the only considerations.
Participation in building structures like these carries with it an ethical responsibility which can't be ignored - especially where the harms are so blatantly dehumanizing.
[0] - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=code%20monke...
Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t want “respect” or whatever other ways things are being framed if I’m being paid a low wage. I always found it insulting when done. When I was treated more like a cog in line with my pay, I don’t remember having any specific consistent resentment or annoyance. This is my own personal life anecdote. — It also isn’t just pay. Being all cute and “nice” and “respectful” but on top of low pay, not being flexible wi…
True I agree with that. It can feel like a cynical slap if they cover up your low status and try to make you feel good about it. I try to coach and mentor my employees and see what they value. I totally recognize that isn't common in management.
Def depends on the job too. I was referring to jobs that paid under $20 an hour in 2021 dollars.
Even though I haven’t begun turning my life around until I passed my 20s. Still, my next job will be as a developer. In that case, a lot of the issues won’t be the same. Even though I’ll be a “lowly web dev cog”, I’ll hopefully be paid decently enough, and be either remote or in the high flying New York area, or some other major metro area.
It is a lot easier to swallow a lot of the issues if my salary is above the median and mean average and on pace to be six figures in a few years.
I think I’d like you as a manager, haha. If it is fine, could you email me at the address in my profile? Assuming you manage tech employees, I’d like to ask about a thing or two. No pressure.