Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

github.com

71–80 of 159 posts

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say over one year of work, do you mean one year of manpower (aka ~2000 hours) or that you started it about a year ago?

Thanks for the thoughtful question. For the CE release, I deleted the Git history (it became too difficult to deal with branch rewrites trying to remove all the cruft and deployment secret keys etc). But the actual current working repo for the non-free version has ~ 2400 commits[0]. And the repo that I forked that from (~ 7 months ago), I'd closed 238 issues, and the repo I forked that project from I closed 200 issue…

Awesome. Thanks for the detailed answer.

I dig your dedication! You well earned to be on the front page!

Who do you see as the main target audience? And do you have a business model in mind?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#72
Darn... I'm working on almost exactly the same project. The big challenge is getting access to server hardware that is actually meant for webbrowsing. Not only are AWS et al expensive, they primarily offer "webservers" which are optimized for very light not very CPU intensive workloads and needless to say they also don't offer hardware accelerated video decoding.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#73

Someone else already mentioned being hit by Google captchas and the developer of this service said that he switched to DDG as the default search provider. Nevertheless I tried Google and kept working through 15 (yes, fifteen) captchas in a row and Google still wouldn't let me through, and then I gave up. What the hell? Surely even after 1 captcha, Google should be amply convinced that I'm not a robot and let me did a…

Not just for remote browsers, but even any browser other than Google Chrome it triggers a lot of captchas and even renders a lot of sites hosted behind Cloudflare unusable - which is a lot. Just try doing a reverse phone number search on truecaller.com. It will work flawlessly on Chrome but use FF or any other browser and recaptcha will fail you saying you're a bot (at least happens to me evey time I've tried). Same…

I haven't experienced this - I don't suppose you're using uBlock origin or some similar ad/track blocker?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#74

Someone else already mentioned being hit by Google captchas and the developer of this service said that he switched to DDG as the default search provider. Nevertheless I tried Google and kept working through 15 (yes, fifteen) captchas in a row and Google still wouldn't let me through, and then I gave up. What the hell? Surely even after 1 captcha, Google should be amply convinced that I'm not a robot and let me did a…

That is a "feature" of ReCAPTCHA, and I believe there might even be a patent on it. The idea is that if you are sure it's a bot and want to deny them access you still waste their resources by making them solve impossible captchas.

It also has the side effect of making the user experience on competing browsers significantly worse.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#75

Someone else already mentioned being hit by Google captchas and the developer of this service said that he switched to DDG as the default search provider. Nevertheless I tried Google and kept working through 15 (yes, fifteen) captchas in a row and Google still wouldn't let me through, and then I gave up. What the hell? Surely even after 1 captcha, Google should be amply convinced that I'm not a robot and let me did a…

That is a "feature" of ReCAPTCHA, and I believe there might even be a patent on it. The idea is that if you are sure it's a bot and want to deny them access you still waste their resources by making them solve impossible captchas.

It also happens if you have extensive anti-fingerprinting measures in place. It doesn't go on forever though. 1 minute of captachas or so.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#77
post #6

Hey, this is super cool and interesting! Are you using puppeteer to do this? Might be cool to partner on some of it if you’re looking into that (I run browserless.io). Best!

Hey! Thanks for the message. I like browserless! I don't use puppeteer. I use Chrome DevTools Protocol heavily tho. I started using chrome-remote-interface but hit limits in what it can do with Targets (specifically, flat session mode) and the latest versions of the API. Now I just use the WebSocket directly. I'd like to partner. Email me cris@dosycorp.com

Hi, is there any reason to avoid using puppeteer? Does it lack something you need when using the devtools protocol? Is it buggy?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#78
post #49
post #9

Could someone write a few sentences about what it is and how it works, and why it is significant? I see neither this post, the GH repo, nor its website really says much of anything on the subject. I only see info about why it’s being open sourced and how to set it up. If someone were to go to all that trouble, I am surprised they would stop short on just providing basic info.

It's like VNC but for browsers, and usable in a browser.

Yes, that's a great way of putting it, thank you!

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#79

Someone else already mentioned being hit by Google captchas and the developer of this service said that he switched to DDG as the default search provider. Nevertheless I tried Google and kept working through 15 (yes, fifteen) captchas in a row and Google still wouldn't let me through, and then I gave up. What the hell? Surely even after 1 captcha, Google should be amply convinced that I'm not a robot and let me did a…

That is a "feature" of ReCAPTCHA, and I believe there might even be a patent on it. The idea is that if you are sure it's a bot and want to deny them access you still waste their resources by making them solve impossible captchas.

As a non-chrome user things have been getting a lot worse lately. I've also noticed more and more pages using recaptcha even there's no clear way for bots to spam content.

Are people really that eager to send google all traffic information? Is this really the best solution? Couldn't one for example parse the actual content that the bots are trying to create and filter/ban them based on that? I believe spam detection is quite effective these days.

This whole captcha hell is making web really annoying for normal users and mostly just benefits google.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#80

Cool idea at first, but on second thought, how is it supposed to mitigate internet threats? Users need to download files, open them with local apps, upload local files. All necessary channels for RCEs and exfiltration are still there. Current malware codebase might get stuck with it, but it's a matter of time and adoption. Other threats like clickjacking, cryptomining, phishing would just work as before. Am I missing…

First up that is some great feedback and raises a lot of really good points.

I don't know if you're missing anything but this feedback about files is on point. I really appreciate it. And I'm surprised no one raise this until now. Thank you for your time thinking about this and for making the space for me to speak about it.

> Users need to download files, open them with local apps, upload local files.

Ideally, user's don't download files, they use the Secure remote file viewer[0] (which currently handles PDFs, DOC/X, XLSX, etc), so that helps with exploits from there (such as the Chrome zero day from PDFium that recently occurred). No configuration is required, it automatically jumps in whenever a download starts.

Also, because the browser is running in the cloud, that "download" actually only happens between the web and the cloud. The file literally goes down to a temporary directory on a server in the cloud, before being sent to the secure file viewer. That file never touches the client's device or network. And the secure file viewer only sends pixels to the client, because it converts all documents to images, and then, the browser sends a screenshot of that page. So it's like... two layers of images.

Anyway, that helps mitigate the RCE threat from exploited file objects, browser and device zero days. And no HTML,JS,CSS from the browsed page is ever sent to your device.

As for opening with local apps, that's debatable with things like G Suite and Office 365. But we can integrate with a corporation's SWG (secure web gateway) and file policy so BG doesn't degrade their existing security, but it does provide an extra layer.

As for uploading that is absolutely required, otherwise many things would be unusable. I don't pretend that BG provides any sort of malware or virus scanner (mainly because there is not download), but as for uploads, it's possible to integrate into an organizations' existing SWG technology to gate-keep content that leaves, and also white and black list accessible sites.

> Current malware codebase might get stuck with it, but it's a matter of time and adoption.

I agree that to some extent, security is an ongoing "arms race". But there seems to be limits to what malware can achieve through the exploitation of pixels sent to the device. It puts a big limit on their attack vectors.

It sounds like there's no point taking any steps, because malware can always find a way through. When you say something like this, I feel like I'm wasting my time talking security, because it looks like you'd never adopt a mitigation anyway.

> Other threats like clickjacking, cryptomining, phishing would just work as before.

That's a great point. I don't think this tool can prevent against social engineering threats like phishing, fraud and deception. It may even may them worse by allowing users to feel "more secure" and therefore act more rashly.

No tool provides perfect protection, but BG can reduce the attack surface and isolate and contain many threats away from the device and network of the client. In the case of clickjacking, older browsers can be vulnerable because of CSP headers, but with BG you always proxy through the latest chrome.

As for cryptomining that will simply not work well at all. We have monitoring software that puts hard limits on CPU, memory and bandwidth for each browser and each user. Please, go ahead and try it.

[0]: https://imgur.com/gallery/Z32ZPg3

Post reply on HN