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Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

undetectag.com

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Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#61

Post by _aavaa_ »

mulmen wrote: post #54
_aavaa_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of trust in the purchase comes from Apple, not from this seller. It's apple that's reaching into your device and force updating the firmware without your consent.

No. The product in this case relies on unintended functionality in a specific firmware version of an Apple device that is specifically designed to not be suitable for this application. In this case it is the add-on device that is not offering refunds if it stops working.

Yes.

> if it stops working.

It doesn't magically stop working though, it would be apple explicitly putting in effort to break this functionality and forcing you to update a device you own, forcing you to use it only how they want you to use it.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#62

Post by spuz »

mulmen wrote: post #54
_aavaa_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of trust in the purchase comes from Apple, not from this seller. It's apple that's reaching into your device and force updating the firmware without your consent.

No. The product in this case relies on unintended functionality in a specific firmware version of an Apple device that is specifically designed to not be suitable for this application. In this case it is the add-on device that is not offering refunds if it stops working.

Where do you get the idea that Apple specifically designed the AirTag to not be suitable for a third party device to control when it switches on and off? I can understand how they might not approve of this adaptation to their product but I don't see any reason to believe they specifically designed against it.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#63

Post by ale42 »

Half-related question: the chip on the board looks like an STM32 microcontroller, wouldn't a 6-pin 8-bit PIC10 or similar µC be sufficient and cheaper for the purpose? And possibly use less power, a PIC10F322 in sleep mode with the watchdog timer enabled is around 0.5 µA, while a small STM32 is more in the 100 µA range in the best case.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#65

Post by outworlder »

andygeorge wrote: post #43
pompidoo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point. In this case the price point makes this a bearable risk, especially to protect much more valuable items. A refund is only useful if only a certain % of people have issue or the company is big. Since this is my only product, an Airtag update that bricks the devices would just bankrupt the company and make me unable to refund most people as my margin is very low anyway.

sure but you've acknowledged that your product is something that Apple considers bad and could shut it down. that can usually be overlooked for things like emulation, but you've developed a product that does something Apple specifically added protections against after they learned of its dangerous misuse

> sure but you've acknowledged that your product is something that Apple considers bad

No. Everyone that builds projects inside someone else's ecosystem is subject to this. Even companies that like what your are doing might break it if they aren't specifically testing against your product.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#67

Post by mulmen »

spuz wrote: post #62
mulmen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The product in this case relies on unintended functionality in a specific firmware version of an Apple device that is specifically designed to not be suitable for this application. In this case it is the add-on device that is not offering refunds if it stops working.

Where do you get the idea that Apple specifically designed the AirTag to not be suitable for a third party device to control when it switches on and off? I can understand how they might not approve of this adaptation to their product but I don't see any reason to believe they specifically designed against it.

The AirTag is specifically designed to not be used to track people without their knowledge.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#68

Post by mulmen »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #61
mulmen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The product in this case relies on unintended functionality in a specific firmware version of an Apple device that is specifically designed to not be suitable for this application. In this case it is the add-on device that is not offering refunds if it stops working.

Yes. > if it stops working. It doesn't magically stop working though, it would be apple explicitly putting in effort to break this functionality and forcing you to update a device you own, forcing you to use it only how they want you to use it.

It doesn’t require Apple deliberately breaking this product. They could change the required functionality for an unrelated reason.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#69

Post by mulmen »

pompidoo wrote: post #56
mulmen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have your priorities wrong. Why should an unsustainable business be prioritized over consumer benefit? Nobody has a right to a successful business but when consumers can trust their purchases they are more likely to make additional purchases.

I felt like adding that disclaimer was a nice thing to do, informing the customer and letting them make their own decision. It makes almost no difference to remove that disclaimer (well, it would increase sales). it is not to protect myself. The price is very low and margin is very thin, what happens if Apple bricks the device? There would be very little money left to refund the customers, and most of the refunds wou…

Agree that the transparency is nice but the limitation it mentions disqualifies the product for me.

Re: Show HN: Undetectag, track stolen items with AirTag

#70

Post by anonymousiam »

A poor workaround to a problem created by unnecessary restrictions. Stalking is already illegal, so why are the tags crippled in the first place? This "feature" severely limits the usefulness of tags for tracking stolen items. Why not just sell some tags that don't alert everyone to their presence? Police and intelligence agencies have those already, so who are we protecting?
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