linux client planned?
If there's enough demand we can release one! :)
Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
61–69 of 69 posts
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> SSO tax seems like a very reasonable price differentiation method to me Security is not a differentiation method. It's table stakes for any technical product. That's what the above linked website explains.
> Security is not a differentiation method. It's table stakes for any technical product. Security as table stakes, sure. SSO, certainly not. It's an additional cost, last I checked it was between 10$ and 20$ per user per month if you take the cheapest option and outsource it . This whole notion of "Unless you meet this security standard that 99% of products don't meet, your product hasn't met table stakes" is nonsens…
We will have to agree to disagree on whether SSO is security or not.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Security is not a differentiation method. It's table stakes for any technical product. Security as table stakes, sure. SSO, certainly not. It's an additional cost, last I checked it was between 10$ and 20$ per user per month if you take the cheapest option and outsource it . This whole notion of "Unless you meet this security standard that 99% of products don't meet, your product hasn't met table stakes" is nonsens…
We will have to agree to disagree on whether SSO is security or not.
> We will have to agree to disagree on whether SSO is security or not.
It's not a binary flag, it's a spectrum. "Defense in depth" is a thing, and that means a layered approach to security.
Just because a product is missing SSO does not in any way mean that that product fails any security check.
IMO, holding the position that not having SSO is the same as not having security is unreasonable.
Missing SSO does not magically make the other $FOO layers of your security vanish into the ether.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Security is not a differentiation method. It's table stakes for any technical product. Security as table stakes, sure. SSO, certainly not. It's an additional cost, last I checked it was between 10$ and 20$ per user per month if you take the cheapest option and outsource it . This whole notion of "Unless you meet this security standard that 99% of products don't meet, your product hasn't met table stakes" is nonsens…
Running my own keycloak or another ory hydra is a boring task. Locking SSO behind some arbitrary scale and raked up price takes sales away from you. It’s a matter of perspective.
> Running my own keycloak or another ory hydra is a boring task.
Simply running keycloak is not sufficient for SSO.
An SSO implementation may take months of dev time (i.e. $50k, minimum, considering cost of dev hours spent on it, and opportunity cost of not having those devs putting those hours into features).
And after you have done that, it remains an expensive feature - it's a high-touch feature that will eat product support time like you wouldn't believe.
Outsourcing this is still the cheapest option, and it still costs more than the product itself in many cases.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#65fwiw, what no chat system has done is incorporate the wiki well.
transferring data from chat to kb is incredibly tedious.
do this and win my undying love.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Running my own keycloak or another ory hydra is a boring task. Locking SSO behind some arbitrary scale and raked up price takes sales away from you. It’s a matter of perspective.
> Running my own keycloak or another ory hydra is a boring task. Simply running keycloak is not sufficient for SSO. An SSO implementation may take months of dev time (i.e. $50k, minimum, considering cost of dev hours spent on it, and opportunity cost of not having those devs putting those hours into features). And after you have done that, it remains an expensive feature - it's a high-touch feature that will eat prod…
I don’t understand your point. My question is: if the service provider offers SSO as an additional feature, why limit it to certain size of a client? Their service supports it. Why cannot my two persons company enable this feature? My two persons company can run my own keycloak and use it as an OAuth provider in your product all right. If you need months of dev time to enable SSO on my account then say that upfront because I will certainly find a different service provider because you clearly don’t know what you’re doing.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#67Hi team--and hello Fred! You and I had some great conversations about Slack's direction--as well as its missed opportunities--back when we worked there together. I was leading developer education at the time, and frustrated with the decisions that were coming down that caused us to pivot away from what we agreed on was the "true core experience" of a collaborative messaging system: connecting users with the knowledge they need without having to parse through other knowledge that may be important in different contexts.
I'm genuinely excited that you're in this space now, too, as I myself have had my nose to the grindstone building out what the collaboration app for distributed teams that I've always wanted. We need options/competition in this space; just this year alone, I've had a little over a a dozen conversations with interested folks in teams across the United States working in industries from agricultural sensors manufacturing to game studios for hire, and the same pain points that you and I were reasoning about back at Slack are the same pain points that users still unwillingly tolerate.
See you around--and good luck out there!
PS. As an English major I'd be remiss to not share that I love the name emdash. :D
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Running my own keycloak or another ory hydra is a boring task. Simply running keycloak is not sufficient for SSO. An SSO implementation may take months of dev time (i.e. $50k, minimum, considering cost of dev hours spent on it, and opportunity cost of not having those devs putting those hours into features). And after you have done that, it remains an expensive feature - it's a high-touch feature that will eat prod…
I don’t understand your point. My question is: if the service provider offers SSO as an additional feature, why limit it to certain size of a client? Their service supports it. Why cannot my two persons company enable this feature? My two persons company can run my own keycloak and use it as an OAuth provider in your product all right. If you need months of dev time to enable SSO on my account then say that upfront b…
> If you need months of dev time to enable SSO on my account then say that upfront because I will certainly find a different service provider because you clearly don’t know what you’re doing.
If you could do that, you would. The point is that SSO is high-touch and high-maintenance, and the price reflects that.
If it is as cheap you appear to think so, you'll make a killing offering SSO for businesses and undercutting the current providers by (maybe) 50%.
I don't think you are doing that. Maybe I am wrong, but if you are right you're leaving easy money on the table.
Re: Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaboration
#69Hi team--and hello Fred! You and I had some great conversations about Slack's direction--as well as its missed opportunities--back when we worked there together. I was leading developer education at the time, and frustrated with the decisions that were coming down that caused us to pivot away from what we agreed on was the "true core experience" of a collaborative messaging system: connecting users with the knowledge…
:wave: Great to hear from you, Jesse — and so interesting that we’re both still thinking about these same challenges all these years later. Collaboration is tough to get right, and we’ve definitely heard plenty of painful stories along the way too.
Wishing you the best with your work — I’ll be keeping an eye out for your launch. Good luck!