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Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

birls.org

61–70 of 76 posts

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'm curious. What's wrong with making information on deceased service members searchable?

It costs the VA money they could use to youknow be saving veterans lives with? That is the "explain to a five year old" tier reason. There are a lot of other reasons too besides that, but the simple one for you should suffice.

> It costs the VA money they could use to youknow be saving veterans lives with?

As someone who was the direct caregiver (guardian, POA) of a vet for 25 years, this assertion seems imagined.

It certainly doesn't reflect the factors that determine quality of care in the VA - that is, the factors that differentiate care between Tampa Bay's VA (very good) and Wichita or Atlanta (problematic).

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#62
post #19

I previously tried getting military records for my deceased grandfather. From what I can recall, it was complicated by the fact that I wasn't "next of kin", which would limit the data I'd have access to. Even my parent, who was next of kin, would have needed additional paperwork as proof, e.g. a death/marriage certificate for my grandmother. On one hand, if this works then I'll be happy to have the information I othe…

>From what I can recall, it was complicated by the fact that I wasn't "next of kin", which would limit the data I'd have access to. My state has a process for claiming unclaimed funds that banks and such report to the government and that is what is keeping me from claiming some funds my grandmother has listed on the site. It's not even clear to me what constitutes 'next of kin' legally, presumably it'd be one of her…

Your state should have information on their unclaimed property page to contact someone who can explain what documentation is necessary to establish legal order next of kin chain from your ancestor to whomever is claiming the property they are acting as custodian for. Call them! Most are usually very helpful.

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'm curious. What's wrong with making information on deceased service members searchable?

It costs the VA money they could use to youknow be saving veterans lives with? That is the "explain to a five year old" tier reason. There are a lot of other reasons too besides that, but the simple one for you should suffice.

They are required by law to provide the data, and freely give it to Ancestry.com and the like.

You could argue they also shouldn't spend any money on computer security, investigating internal sexual harassment cases, or patching holes in their parking lot because that is just taking away money that could be used on veterans.

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#64

This site feels icky and I’m not quite sure how to articulate why. What is the purpose of this service? Why is it good for the public have access to detailed records of individual, recently deceased veterans? Isn’t this a gold mine for scammers? Is this project LDS affiliated?

> This site feels icky and I’m not quite sure how to articulate why. What is the purpose of this service?

Sounds like genealogy, and a small fraction of the documents in a veteran's would probably be very helpful in fleshing out some basic details of their military service (especially given a fire destroyed many of the original copies of those documents).

The actual medical records part seems inappropriate, though.

> Why is it good for the public have access to detailed records of individual, recently deceased veterans? Isn’t this a gold mine for scammers? Is this project LDS affiliated?

It seems like it's a gap in FOIA. These records should be available, just not to everyone in the whole world (at least not before, say, 60 years after the veteran's death). It seems legitimate that an appropriately-close family member should be able to request them (similar to restrictions in requesting birth certificates).

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#65
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give the government tools for hiding information, the government will abuse those tools. This is what freedom looks like. I have family members in this dataset, and they would be fine with it because they would pick freedom and this is what freedom has to look like.

[flagged]

The founding fathers understood freedom needs public accountability. That includes how government decisions are made and how public funds are used, including at the VA. The founding fathers believed a well-informed citizenry was vital to a free society.

FOIA deters misconduct, corruption, and waste. Even in this context, doctors diagnosis/judgement of service members has come up for discussion.

A free society empowers the public, which is exactly what this information does.

Transparency fosters trust. When we can look inside institutions we are more likely to trust them. For the VA, that means looking at the treatments they are providing and how they are treating those they are supposed to serve. The VA has historically had very low public/veteran trust.

Access to information such as this fosters relevant discussions and debate. Especially for an entity like the VA which receive virtually all of it's funding from the government and needs to constantly (sadly) resell the public on the necesity of it's budget.

Were the VA (whose purpose is medical care of our veterans and is almost exclusively funded by us the taxpayers) to restrict access to... information about medical care to our veterans would be a huge issue for a free society.

My position is not deviant, extremist, nor alien to the concept/definition of the burdens/requirements of freedom promoted by the founding fathers.

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#66
post #64

This site feels icky and I’m not quite sure how to articulate why. What is the purpose of this service? Why is it good for the public have access to detailed records of individual, recently deceased veterans? Isn’t this a gold mine for scammers? Is this project LDS affiliated?

> This site feels icky and I’m not quite sure how to articulate why. What is the purpose of this service? Sounds like genealogy, and a small fraction of the documents in a veteran's would probably be very helpful in fleshing out some basic details of their military service (especially given a fire destroyed many of the original copies of those documents). The actual medical records part seems inappropriate, though. >…

Agree completely with your comments and the parent's comment. It feels like this shouldn't have been allowed by the courts without better scrutiny and wisdom on the part of the courts.

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s critically important to mention that the VA provided all this data to Ancestry.com years ago. According to the newletter op linked, Ancestry.com charges $300/year for access to this data. This unfairness is what prompted the lawsuit and ultimate release of data.

Indeed. This is ABSOLUTELY not the first time we’ve dealt with a government agency (at the local, state, or federal levels) providing a copy of a public dataset to Ancestry.com and not to the general public. Our taxpayer-funded data keeps ending up solely behind a $300/year paywall. It’s not fair. (Also, the stripped-down version of BIRLS that has been on the Ancestry website for a while now is much smaller and older…

How recent was the last death of a veteran, given to Ancestry.com, compared to what your efforts have now exposed?

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#68

Really hope op and crew are sued to oblivion.

Actually, “op and crew” were the Plaintiffs (well, really the Petitioners, to be pedantic) who already sued the VA for this database in federal court (SDNY), and won that multi-year lawsuit, and even won our attorneys fees too. If you had checked our website, you’d see we even posted the court papers online for free, from both sides — and the judge’s order in our favor, of course.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. This is ABSOLUTELY not the first time we’ve dealt with a government agency (at the local, state, or federal levels) providing a copy of a public dataset to Ancestry.com and not to the general public. Our taxpayer-funded data keeps ending up solely behind a $300/year paywall. It’s not fair. (Also, the stripped-down version of BIRLS that has been on the Ancestry website for a while now is much smaller and older…

How recent was the last death of a veteran, given to Ancestry.com, compared to what your efforts have now exposed?

Ancestry has a somewhat smaller copy of the BIRLS database online, covering just the years 1850-2010 [1], and it seems to have been published on their website in 2011: https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/2441/

Our data set from the VA contains data through mid-2020, and was turned over to us in 2022 after undergoing extensive double-checking by the agency, including through non-public VA sources, to confirm the veterans really were all deceased. There's a paper showing the agency's methodology on our site, which we FOIAed from them.

There are a significant number of deceased veterans whose data is *not* included in the BIRLS database, because they (or their family/heirs) simply did not have any contact with the VA concerning benefits in or after the 1970s, which is when the database was first starting to be built. That is, their files almost always still exist on a warehouse shelf somewhere, but they weren't active any time in the past fifty years so they didn't get pulled and indexed into the database. You can still make a FOIA request to the agency asking for one of those files, but the VA will have a lower chance of successfully finding the file, and it usually will take longer for you to get a response.

[1] 1850 is very likely an approximation. While there are certainly deceased veterans listed in the BIRLS database who had birthdates or deathdates in the mid nineteenth century and/or service in the late nineteenth century, they are relatively few. Many of them are actually veterans with likely birthdates or deathdates in the twentieth century whose data seems to have been initially recorded by the VA with a two digit year of birth or death or enlistment/entry, and then assigned to the wrong two digit prefix, causing an incorrect four digit year of birth or death or year of entry/enlistment into service.

In other words, the VA's historic data is very messy and is a great example of an actual Y2K issue.

Re: Show HN: New search engine and free-FOIA-by-fax-via-web for US veteran records

#70
I need to get a copy of the database asap just for my data archiving neurosis lol. The amount of vitriolic comments here from entitled "service" members is astounding and makea me wish to safeguard it personally. I mean we have people in the comments calling people "extremist" and bringing up founding fathers bullshit ....

Only jarheads seem to think the parental tone of "you don't know what freedom is" actually works.... Maybe because they have been thru boot camp idk.

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