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Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

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Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#61

Post by zigzag312 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #49
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is faster than C#, that's not "bike-shedding farce", that's a documented, and benchmarked fact JSon serialization: 20+% faster: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&tes... Single query: 20+% faster: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&tes... Multiple query: 20+% faster: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&tes... Data update: 15% faster: https://www.te…

Why is this being downvoted? Sure the opening line isn't the most gentle, but these are some crazy benchmarks. I never saw this website before. First link: How is it possible that Java can achieve same perf as C??? I write a lot of Java, and none of my stuff is close to C. I guess about 50% the speed -- which fine for my needs. One reason (totally unscientific, of course) I think Java is faster: The virtual machine h…

Techempower benchmarks are web framework benchmarks, not language benchmarks. It's hard to compare language performance from these benchmarks as there are so many other factors here that affect performance.

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#62

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

merb wrote: post #60
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this being downvoted? Sure the opening line isn't the most gentle, but these are some crazy benchmarks. I never saw this website before. I guess people don't like getting fact checked

because you should really look into these frameworks if you really think its a good comparsion. if you exclude all the unserious java frameworks you will be stuck with vertx, after that there is a huge list of c# and than there is the rest of java. I mean yes, these frameworks might be the next big thing in the java world, but once they are there, they will at least loose 20% of performance. (p.s. you can also remove…

If vertex's json serialization is too slow, you swap that part for something faster, that's how you use languages in the real world; what is this language capable of, and how i can fully exploit it

Developers nowadays seem stuck in a box for some reason

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#63

Post by [deleted] »

zigzag312 wrote: post #61
throwaway2037 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this being downvoted? Sure the opening line isn't the most gentle, but these are some crazy benchmarks. I never saw this website before. First link: How is it possible that Java can achieve same perf as C??? I write a lot of Java, and none of my stuff is close to C. I guess about 50% the speed -- which fine for my needs. One reason (totally unscientific, of course) I think Java is faster: The virtual machine h…

Techempower benchmarks are web framework benchmarks, not language benchmarks. It's hard to compare language performance from these benchmarks as there are so many other factors here that affect performance.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#64

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

zigzag312 wrote: post #61
throwaway2037 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this being downvoted? Sure the opening line isn't the most gentle, but these are some crazy benchmarks. I never saw this website before. First link: How is it possible that Java can achieve same perf as C??? I write a lot of Java, and none of my stuff is close to C. I guess about 50% the speed -- which fine for my needs. One reason (totally unscientific, of course) I think Java is faster: The virtual machine h…

Techempower benchmarks are web framework benchmarks, not language benchmarks. It's hard to compare language performance from these benchmarks as there are so many other factors here that affect performance.

C'mon, this benchmark properly benchmark how fast languages are at certain tasks, the library used doesn't matter, the task however matter

A framework is not representative of a language performance, it is representative of the framework's performance, they might not use newest language features, they might use outdated dependencies, developer might have wrote poor code, they might have bugs

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#65

Post by westurner »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #3

The hardest part of debugging Python is "hitting the wall" when you come to a native library (compiled C code). And Python has achieved a lot of speed-ups from Py2 to Py3 by adding more compiled C code. This is a real blocker for understanding the foundation library. On the other hand, in Java, with a few exceptions around Swing (native painting for GUIs) in Java, almost everything is written in pure Java, so you can…

> The hardest part of debugging Python is "hitting the wall" when you come to a native library (compiled C code). And Python has achieved a lot of speed-ups from Py2 to Py3 by adding more compiled C code.

"Debugging a Mixed Python and C Language Stack" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35710350

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#66

Post by wheelerof4te »

steveBK123 wrote: post #17
wheelerof4te wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you asked me, Python not only shouldn't rely on (third-party) C library code, but it shouldn't even be used for cases where pure Python is not optimal.

Right, Python is the new Perl and people are misunderstanding what that means.

Python is Bash++.

Always was, always will be.

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#67

Post by steveBK123 »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #66
steveBK123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, Python is the new Perl and people are misunderstanding what that means.

Python is Bash++. Always was, always will be.

But as a signifier it’s actually the opposite. Someone that knows bash in 2023 is likely a decent well rounded dev. Python in 2023 doesn’t even imply the ability to program.

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#68

Post by Affric »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #12
elnatro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that relying less in C code could be better for Python and it’s community? I mean less focus on being “glue” between C code and more focus con optimizing the interpreter?

If you asked me, Python not only shouldn't rely on (third-party) C library code, but it shouldn't even be used for cases where pure Python is not optimal.

The whole point of Python is that it abstracts away the low level stuff and you simply “import” and attack the problem you’re actually looking at. It’s optimal for allowing people who don’t have lots of algorithm design memorised to do higher level comp sci.

Python’s optimal use case does not relate to speed.

Re: Show HN: Python can make 3M+ WebSocket keys per second

#70

Post by throwaway2037 »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #62
merb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because you should really look into these frameworks if you really think its a good comparsion. if you exclude all the unserious java frameworks you will be stuck with vertx, after that there is a huge list of c# and than there is the rest of java. I mean yes, these frameworks might be the next big thing in the java world, but once they are there, they will at least loose 20% of performance. (p.s. you can also remove…

If vertex's json serialization is too slow, you swap that part for something faster, that's how you use languages in the real world; what is this language capable of, and how i can fully exploit it Developers nowadays seem stuck in a box for some reason

    you swap that part for something faster
FasterXML (Jackson)?
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