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Show HN: Ki Programming Language

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Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#61

Post by gavinhoward »

xigoi wrote: post #59
Freebytes wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you suggest instead? Please do not say Python. Using spaces for syntax is madness.

You never make use of horizontal spacing when, say, making notes on paper?

Notes on paper are for humans.

Programming languages are for humans and machines. Machines do better with braces. (I've written lexers for both.)

Also, try to write an automatic formatter for a whitespace-delimited language; if your indentation is wrong, your logic is wrong, whereas with a brace language, if your indentation is wrong, you run a formatter, and it's all golden.

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#62

Post by avgcorrection »

phpnode wrote: post #34
bheadmaster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

V-lang is vaporware, designed to get Patreon bux off of gullible enthusiasts. See this post [0] from 2019. Things don't seem to have got much better in recent years [1] [2] [3]. [0] https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554

I've got no particular interest in V, but the hate it gets from a certain group of people here is really perplexing and I don't think it's at all warranted from what I've seen.

A certain set of what?

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#63

Post by xigoi »

gavinhoward wrote: post #61
xigoi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never make use of horizontal spacing when, say, making notes on paper?

Notes on paper are for humans. Programming languages are for humans and machines. Machines do better with braces. (I've written lexers for both.) Also, try to write an automatic formatter for a whitespace-delimited language; if your indentation is wrong, your logic is wrong, whereas with a brace language, if your indentation is wrong, you run a formatter, and it's all golden.

A parser is something you write once and then it's done, so it shouldn't be the deciding factor. And parsing indentation-based languages is not that hard, just replace indents and dedents with a special token.

In a brace-based language, if your braces are wrong, your logic is wrong. How is that better? At least a mistake in indentation is much easier for a human to spot.

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#64

Post by Tozen »

bheadmaster wrote: post #54
phpnode wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got no particular interest in V, but the hate it gets from a certain group of people here is really perplexing and I don't think it's at all warranted from what I've seen.

I've had similar sentiment when I first seen V. However, after a brief and unpleasant conversation with the developer who was extremely defensive against any, even valid, criticism - especially related to the false advertising! - made me change my mind. Alex knows very well what he's doing, he's a grifter who is collecting money off of smoke and mirrors, and his language still hasn't reached any remotely usable state…

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Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#65

Post by Tozen »

icholy wrote: post #45
hu3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's weird. They seem to have the same copy-pasted message ready with some old links and whatever they could gather that's more recent. Never fails. As far as I can see V is well placed on TechEmpower so it must be doing something right at least: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&tes... Maybe they didn't deliver on all their claims yet, so what? They seem to be trying something cool. Certa…

The devs burned their reputation by repeated blatant lying.

Was it the V devs lying, or was it their near competitors and various evangelists continually spreading misinformation and doing constant media/social media attacks?

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#66

Post by Tozen »

bheadmaster wrote: post #17
sebastianconcpt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

V-lang doesn't have GC, and how it compares to it?

V-lang is vaporware, designed to get Patreon bux off of gullible enthusiasts. See this post [0] from 2019. Things don't seem to have got much better in recent years [1] [2] [3]. [0] https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20230351 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31793554

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Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#67

Post by Tozen »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #11
lagniappe wrote: post #4

> Go: Go is amazing. But it does have garbage collection, which can cause lag spikes in some cases. The creators were also very late on implementing common sense features, such as package versioning and generics. There are some other small mistakes, but the point is that we lack trust in their descission making. > Rust: Rust right now might be the best language out there right now. It's hard for us to criticize them…

V-lang doesn't have GC, and how it compares to it?

V has flexible memory management. This is stated on their website and documentation:

1) Uses GC as a convenient default and is optional (can be turned off with -gc none)

2) Can use autofree (enabled with -autofree)

3) Can use arena allocation (enabled with -prealloc)

4) Can be managed manually (-gc none)

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#68

Post by Tozen »

icholy wrote: post #47
ki_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think v-lang is faster than ki, rust, go. But their memory management isnt waterproof. Also, they have been in development for a really long time and there isnt much progress. They should have reached 1.0 by now, but they havent and i think it's because the language might have problems. oh and, v-lang does have GC. they use boehm gc.

Does a hello world still leak memory?

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Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#69

Post by Tozen »

ki_ wrote: post #19
sebastianconcpt wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

V-lang doesn't have GC, and how it compares to it?

I think v-lang is faster than ki, rust, go. But their memory management isnt waterproof. Also, they have been in development for a really long time and there isnt much progress. They should have reached 1.0 by now, but they havent and i think it's because the language might have problems. oh and, v-lang does have GC. they use boehm gc.

> ...they have been in development for a really long time and there isnt much progress.

> They should have reached 1.0 by now...

These are strange statements. People having any familiarity with newer programming languages are likely to not know or be confused by where this is coming from.

V is a relatively new language that came out in 2019 and is in beta. So comparatively speaking, V has progressed well at the least, debatably quite fast. V also has more GitHub stars than all the listed below languages (in beta) combined (per OSS Github language rankings). Let's look at the starting dates for these popular and newer languages:

1) Zig came out in 2016 and is still in beta.

2) Odin came out in 2016 and is still in beta.

3) Jai started in 2014 (full time around 2017) and is still in beta.

4) Red came out in 2011 and is still in beta.

The languages that we see today, which are popular and at the top of the rankings (like TIOBE) are significantly to quite old. Among the youngest languages in the top 20 (your post mentions Rust and Go), they came out in 2015 (Rust), 2014 (Swift), and 2009 (Go). All of these have huge corporate support.

Re: Show HN: Ki Programming Language

#70

Post by bheadmaster »

Tozen wrote: post #64
bheadmaster wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had similar sentiment when I first seen V. However, after a brief and unpleasant conversation with the developer who was extremely defensive against any, even valid, criticism - especially related to the false advertising! - made me change my mind. Alex knows very well what he's doing, he's a grifter who is collecting money off of smoke and mirrors, and his language still hasn't reached any remotely usable state…

[flagged]

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