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Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

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Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#61

Post by itsagavin »

Eduard wrote: post #57
itsagavin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessibility is great but its hardly humanity's goal. In most instances your burden is no one else's unless we are talking life or death.

"Allowing people to participate in society is great but hardly humanity's goal." Not only does your comment show ignorance of a significant percentage of humans, it also shows you have zero idea of the fact that good accessibility provides service to everyone. Have you ever struggled to use your smartphone while driving (temporary blindness, because your eyes are focused on the street), or pressed the wrong button wh…

Lol what? No you are right struggling to use your smart phone while driving and simultaneously being blinded by the sun are one of humanities great struggles. Let's get real accessibility has and will always take a back seat to innovation unless the innovator is in some way also disabled. You can always circle back around but no disabled person has any right to talk down to someone else because they weren't a first consideration.

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#62

Post by lukasb »

ClawsOnPaws wrote: post #38
antoineMoPa wrote: post #23

This is awesome, and also awesome is this: > I originally developed a WASM port of wxWidgets I had some fun looking at the commits here[1] and I can imagine a lot of classic wxWidgets apps are going to be ported to wasm now. Congrats, that a lot of dedication! [1] https://github.com/wxWidgets/wxWidgets/compare/master...ahil...

I feel like I should preemptively apologize and I'm really not trying to knock the project in any way, and the achievement is pretty epic, but those who have seen my username on this site before know what's coming, especially in regards to people seriously considering using WX Widgets on the web... This app is inaccessible. Audacity on its own is already a bit difficult to use with a screen reader, but sadly, this po…

I'm surprised at the pushback against ClawsOnPaws here. Why would you not want to make your apps usable by as many people as possible?

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#64

Post by ivraatiems »

ClawsOnPaws wrote: post #38
antoineMoPa wrote: post #23

This is awesome, and also awesome is this: > I originally developed a WASM port of wxWidgets I had some fun looking at the commits here[1] and I can imagine a lot of classic wxWidgets apps are going to be ported to wasm now. Congrats, that a lot of dedication! [1] https://github.com/wxWidgets/wxWidgets/compare/master...ahil...

I feel like I should preemptively apologize and I'm really not trying to knock the project in any way, and the achievement is pretty epic, but those who have seen my username on this site before know what's coming, especially in regards to people seriously considering using WX Widgets on the web... This app is inaccessible. Audacity on its own is already a bit difficult to use with a screen reader, but sadly, this po…

I so frequently see this tone with accessibility discussions: "X is not accessible, so don't use it, stop what you're doing, this is bad." I don't think that kind of scolding - which is what it comes off as - is productive for solving the problem of "X is not accessible", because it presumes the problem is unfixable. I believe you wrote your comment in good faith, and I agree accessibility is important. But I think you should consider focusing on this:

> I'm sure there are ways to add accessibility to a web port of WX

and not

> Just uttering my careful warning that you should please, please, please think 3, 4, 5 times before deciding to actually use this UI library for serious projects.

because, as you acknowledge, this is a hobby project. The goal is to do something cool and fun and push boundaries of what's possible. So if pushing accessibility for all web apps is your goal, why not seize this moment to say "hey let's find ways to make WASM apps more accessible" rather than saying "nobody should use this for serious projects"? Why not try to fix it rather than shutting it down? Doesn't it benefit people more if we find a way to make accessibility easy, rather than discouraging people because it's hard?

There are lots of cool and interesting technical problems in there that somebody who takes the time to make something like this could have interest in: How do OCR or other accessibility tools understand canvasses? How can we communicate with them? What addons to WASM or wxWidgets would achieve this goal?

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#65

Post by tssva »

Eduard wrote: post #56
tssva wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have a legal requirement to provide accessibility, I encourage everyone to ignore this advice. It is basically letting perfect be the enemy of good. Especially if your project is opensource. Someone that cares, which may even be you at a later date when other things on the to-do list are done, can submit patches to address accessibility later.

Brace yourself: the "European accessibility act" will soon make accessibility a legal requirement to the private sector, including computers, operating systems, smartphones, and e-commerce. https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1202 Have your popcorn ready to watch how this will freak out plenty of big corporations, rushing to fix their products, services, and websites from their accessibility "short-sightedness…

I just read it and the requirement for computers applies to hardware and operating systems. Ecommerce sites are covered but website and mobile app requirements beyond that apply to communication, transportation and public sector systems. The vast majority of private sector systems will still not have a legal accessibility requirement.

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#66

Post by handelaar »

miduil wrote: post #47

OMG, finally a audacity version that won't crash my Wayland window manager. Unfortunately the recorded audio is really weird. Basically it tunes down the audio once I'm speaking, maybe some weird autogain racecondition between PulseAudio/Pipewire and Firefox?

Sounds a lot more like playing 44.1kHz audio through a 48kHz device

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#67

Post by ahilss »

paulgb wrote: post #4

Cool! The UI even works on iPhone (alas, playback doesn’t work, so my dreams of multitrack audio editing with just my thumbs are dashed /s) I’m curious what porting wxwidgets involved — are you rendering them with the 2D canvas API, WebGL, or is all the rendering done by WxWidgets and you just have to send a framebuffer into a canvas?

It is rendering using the 2D canvas API. There's a device context class (wxDC) for each wxWidgets port that implements primitive drawing ops (DrawLine, DrawText, etc). For the WASM port, I created a glue library in javascript [1] that wxDC calls into for each primitive.

[1] https://github.com/ahilss/wxWidgets-wasm/blob/master/build/w...

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#68

Post by mb7733 »

dspillett wrote: post #60
lelanthran wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would give you safety properties that native Audacity doesn't have. It would also make distribution much easier. Has Audacity ever had safety issues in the past? Because it sounds like you'll be going to a lot of effort to prevent a problem that had never surfaced in over a decade of use.

Not the sort of safety issues I think you mean, but there have been some rather questionable behaviours from the current owners in the last year or so. A quick search for Audacity here or elsewhere will find the details.

I'll save everyone the quick search. They added really basic opt-in telemetry, and then removed it after an out-of-proportion outcry.

Re: Show HN: Wavvy – web-based audio editor (Audacity port)

#69

Post by ahilss »

ilitirit wrote: post #3

> Audacity seemed like the obvious choice Tangential question, but why did Audacity seem like the obvious choice? Not a knock on the product - I use it often - but I'm just curious about why it was chosen.

It's probably the most visible project using the wxWidgets framework and in the audio domain which fits well with my experience building the DJ app.
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