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Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

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Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#61

Post by akavel »

mtgx wrote: post #38
cies wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm also curious about the benefits that redox offers vis-a-vis bare metal Linux (Alpine/Void etc)? Security (Redox' stems form the language, Linux' stems from being widely used). Hackability (smaller, more modern, more hackable language). Simplicity. > What are the potential areas where Redox could be beneficial ? To put apps on VMs with a very tight and secure OS underneath.

> To put apps on VMs with a very tight and secure OS underneath Hmm. Have you bounced off ideas with the Qubes OS team yet? It could be an option for the core OS/microkernel of Qubes OS.

And/or, maybe even better, with the GenodeOS team?

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#62

Post by wyldfire »

chubot wrote: post #26
kbr wrote: post #16

I've been seeing Redox develop for a while now, and I've got to say—it's really amazing what such a small group of people can accomplish. They have innovative tools in all sorts of areas of computer science. Including coreutils, binutils, a shell (along with a custom shell scripting language), common GUI applications, a hash function, a file system, etc. One of the coolest aspects of all of these tools are that they…

I agree -- I've been somewhat negative about Rust, but it looks like Redox is one of the projects doing "real work" with it. It's an impressive vote of confidence for the language. Also, I'll pat myself on the back and say the Ion shell looks nice, because it borrowed some ideas from the Oil shell [1] :) In particular, we talked a fair bit about the array syntax and semantics, and lack of word splitting. [1] http://w…

What does "word splitting" mean in this context?

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#63

Post by wyldfire »

jackpot51 wrote: post #55
bronz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i watched an interview you did on a podcast some time ago. i found it to be very interesting! in that interview you said that redox was not going to become a viable desktop operating system for a long time. you seemed to even dismiss the sentiment. is that still so?

I personally will use Redox once it is self-hosting as a desktop. However, there is a long, long way to go - wireless, graphics, and audio drivers must be improved.

> (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#64

Post by agumonkey »

jackpot51 wrote: post #54
agumonkey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long until emacs ? or I should say remacs (rust ported emacs by Wilfred Hughes :)

Not sure. We just got termios support, and pthreads is WIP, so many programs like emacs should be portable.

I'm done with other oses

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#65

Post by Mouse47 »

empath75 wrote: post #59
pornel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but maybe can help: 1. I can definitely see its future in drivers, filesystems, codecs (areas where both performance and correctness is required). 2. + Rust has fantastic error handling. No null pointers. Mandatory error checking, but with very light syntax. + Dependencies and modularization in Rust are soooo much easier than in C. + You never have to write `free()` again. + Thread-safety can be guaranteed at…

> You need to "get" Rust's ownership approach before you even manage to compile a non-trivial program. I'm not entirely certain that's true. I wrote a useful (to me) cli script and only have the vaguest understanding of how the ownership model works. I think for text processing sorts of tasks, it's not too difficult to use.

Beginners frequently trip over `&str` vs `String`, but other than that I agree w/ you

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#66

Post by aeleos »

empath75 wrote: post #59
pornel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but maybe can help: 1. I can definitely see its future in drivers, filesystems, codecs (areas where both performance and correctness is required). 2. + Rust has fantastic error handling. No null pointers. Mandatory error checking, but with very light syntax. + Dependencies and modularization in Rust are soooo much easier than in C. + You never have to write `free()` again. + Thread-safety can be guaranteed at…

> You need to "get" Rust's ownership approach before you even manage to compile a non-trivial program. I'm not entirely certain that's true. I wrote a useful (to me) cli script and only have the vaguest understanding of how the ownership model works. I think for text processing sorts of tasks, it's not too difficult to use.

As someone learning rust and currently going through this, I would consider that a trivial program. You will know once you get there because you hit kind of a wall where you have to learn and understand what is basically a language inside of a language. And the language is kind of this mapping for logic that only used to be inside of your head (ownership logic), and so translating that fluently into this brand new language is a real roadblock.

The ownership model isn't too bad for strings, but those are easily the most simple way to start using the ownership model. At least for me, getting into the more advanced ownership stuff is a whole different beast entirely.

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#67

Post by cdaringe »

jackpot51 wrote: post #10
piinbinary wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the most common classes of bugs you observe?

I would say the most common are logic errors.

Seems to be the state all programers wish they were in, but only rustaceans practically find themselves in, assuming "logic" equates to "human rationale" regarding an arbitrary topic

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#68

Post by lobster_johnson »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #41
atombender wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always found it weird that things like file systems in the Linux kernel are so tightly coupled. Why isn’t, say, Ext4 written like a library? (Or is it? I don’t think it is?) Stub out the interface that the kernel needs, and provide an interface for the bits (reading disk blocks and so on) that the file system needs from the kernel. This way, you can decouple it completely from the kernel, test it independently,…

One reason is that it helps keep Linux free by making it harder to pull code out of the tree or maintain out-of-tree drivers, which encourages people to contribute their changes upstream.

Doesn't the GPL ensure this?

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#69

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #68
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is that it helps keep Linux free by making it harder to pull code out of the tree or maintain out-of-tree drivers, which encourages people to contribute their changes upstream.

Doesn't the GPL ensure this?

You can write kernel drivers that are not GPL, which is difficult with the continuously changing internal kernel API.

Re: Show HN: Redox Rust OS – v0.3.3 release

#70

Post by Ar-Curunir »

chubot wrote: post #26
kbr wrote: post #16

I've been seeing Redox develop for a while now, and I've got to say—it's really amazing what such a small group of people can accomplish. They have innovative tools in all sorts of areas of computer science. Including coreutils, binutils, a shell (along with a custom shell scripting language), common GUI applications, a hash function, a file system, etc. One of the coolest aspects of all of these tools are that they…

I agree -- I've been somewhat negative about Rust, but it looks like Redox is one of the projects doing "real work" with it. It's an impressive vote of confidence for the language. Also, I'll pat myself on the back and say the Ion shell looks nice, because it borrowed some ideas from the Oil shell [1] :) In particular, we talked a fair bit about the array syntax and semantics, and lack of word splitting. [1] http://w…

Curious, what makes you think Rust isn't be used for "real work"? So far there's a high performance browser (servo + servo components in FF), kernel (Redox), parallelism library (Rayon), grep replacement (ripgrep), all written in Rust, that are somewhere near best-in-class (Redox is debatable but that's mostly due to the fact that the success of an OS requires many non-technical factors).

All this in a language that's ~2 years old is pretty impressive.

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