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Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

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Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#61

Post by jjawssd »

tptacek wrote: post #60
jjawssd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say that it is entirely fake. When I was in Sweden I was hanging out with several Iraqis which confirmed the existence of no-go zones where assaults and arson including car bombs are common in some suburbs of Stockholm. I take their advice with a grain of salt but they had no apparent incentive to be dishonest. Instead of a crude block list, why not bayesian filtering?

When you were last in Russia did you happen to catch video of the Dalai Lama endorsing Trump and blaming Clinton and Obama for creating ISIS? I don't think trying to rehabilitate this particular fakenews site is a good use of your time, because really you're just going to end up passionately defending a malign shell script.

Didn't see those videos. I'm more interested in an answer to my question.

I believe that the fake news problem is intractable. You cannot identify any news source as being fake or real objectively. You can only trust other people's interpretations of the information, and other people's interpretations are easily manipulated because people are emotional.

What do you think?

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#62

Post by jjawssd »

tptacek wrote: post #58
jjawssd wrote: post #51

Safe spaces for the Internet

I do not see how filtering spam is equivalent to "safe spaces", or who you thought you might persuade with this comment. Could you go into more detail?

This blocklist is ridiculously easy to extend to sources of information which upset many people but are not fake

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#63

Post by ZenoArrow »

aswanson wrote: post #19
allemagne wrote: post #14

There have been a lot of these projects lately. It's clever, but I am not close to being convinced that fake news is a problem that we can engineer our way out of.

If it at least amplifies awareness in the general public about the problem, it's done it's job.

I'd argue it could end up backfiring for multiple reasons. The most obvious one is that it will undoubtedly end up strengthening filter bubbles.

The problems that face us will not be solved by siloing ourselves away from views we disagree with. It might take more effort to filter out bullshit in our current age, but if we're not even aware of the bullshit someone else is feeding off, how are we going to combat it? We need to bring more people into public debate, not isolate them.

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#64

Post by tptacek »

jjawssd wrote: post #62
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not see how filtering spam is equivalent to "safe spaces", or who you thought you might persuade with this comment. Could you go into more detail?

This blocklist is ridiculously easy to extend to sources of information which upset many people but are not fake

Yes, computers are good at things like that. For my part, I'm worried that they might choose to blacklist Pitchfork, and then I won't know whether to buy the next Animal Collective album.

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#65

Post by programmarchy »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #41
allemagne wrote: post #14

There have been a lot of these projects lately. It's clever, but I am not close to being convinced that fake news is a problem that we can engineer our way out of.

People need to stop using the word "fake news" as though people were seeing stories about "bat boy" in the grocery store checkout aisle and believing them. This is propaganda. It's inflammatory, it's knowingly false, and it has a political agenda. It's propaganda.

I'd challenge you to name one news site that doesn't have a political agenda. Everything is "propaganda", including your comment, and mine.

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#66

Post by tptacek »

jjawssd wrote: post #61
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you were last in Russia did you happen to catch video of the Dalai Lama endorsing Trump and blaming Clinton and Obama for creating ISIS? I don't think trying to rehabilitate this particular fakenews site is a good use of your time, because really you're just going to end up passionately defending a malign shell script.

Didn't see those videos. I'm more interested in an answer to my question. I believe that the fake news problem is intractable. You cannot identify any news source as being fake or real objectively. You can only trust other people's interpretations of the information, and other people's interpretations are easily manipulated because people are emotional. What do you think?

The "why not Bayesian filtering"? Indeed, why not? Go build that.

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#67

Post by jnotarstefano »

centizen wrote: post #2

Very nice project, I will definitely be using it and will try to contribute in my spare time. One recommendation I'd have is not to use the word 'safety' in this context, it feels kind of overprotective. Perhaps the link should read "Take me back to reality" instead?

I like "reality" : )

I chose "safety" because I think I copied Chrome's message when visiting a website with an invalid certificate.

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#68

Post by ZenoArrow »

lj3 wrote: post #5

Fake news = news we don't like. This is just another way to make secluded echo chambers. I see some people learned nothing from the election.

Exactly. Blocking sites doesn't solve the issues, if anything it makes things worse. We need to be able to respectfully debate people we disagree with, not shut them out.

This video pretty much outlines what I think about the recent US election and how I think we should look to move on from it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#69

Post by nathcd »

mihok wrote: post #42

Interesting project, Is censorship the best coarse of action? Bare with me for a second, would it not be better to somehow overlay a meter or light indicating that this story is likely false. Even better, some sort of indicator that showed the # of sources (if any) and devised some sort of rating of quality/truthfulness. I'm against all the fake news in Facebook et all but if we dont teach people to be good at detect…

> Bare with me for a second, would it not be better to somehow overlay a meter or light indicating that this story is likely false. Even better, some sort of indicator that showed the # of sources (if any) and devised some sort of rating of quality/truthfulness.

This is an interesting idea. Perhaps we need a public PageRank algorithm and database of pages and domains that could evolve over time. Then the browser addon could just overlay the score of the current page's public rank (and perhaps have a menu showing a list of known outside pages/domains that link to the current page/domain).

Re: Show HN: Stop the Bullshit

#70

Post by sbuttgereit »

I find it fascinating how paternalistic this whole topic is, and "Stop the Bullshit" is part of this. The goal is not developing independent thinkers, but merely ensuring that blind trust is given to the "enlightened people".

The whole idea behind this sort of filtering and vetting is not about teaching people how better to reason about the world and judging the truth of those that would tell you what is happening and why, but rather it says that most people are incapable of making those types of decisions for themselves and that an informed elite should be in control of what information is available to the plebs. Once you concede this, how far is it before we make "fake news", or rather unapproved news, simply illegal? How long until news simply becomes propaganda?

There absolutely is a problem with "fake news" from all quarters and it is nothing new at all: whether that was "bat boy" at the grocery checkout, the sinking of the Maine, or the news and characterizations during the recent campaign. "Stop the Bullshit" and filtering efforts is not a solution to the problem, merely the creation of new problems such an even less thoughtful populous and a new set of arbiters of the truth that I for one won't trust any more that the current ones.

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