Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

warp.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 757 posts

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#561

Post by OutsmartDan »

zhengt wrote: post #321
OutsmartDan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a ton of data being collected. I would rather much have this submitted during a crash, rather than opt-in/opt-out. I'd not want to use a terminal that has data collection that crosses the internet every time I use it.

Totally understand if you don't feel comfortable using it! The reason we don't submit this only during a crash, is because there are a lot of other things we want to know about users like: Which features are they using? Are they sticking to warp as their daily driver? How much time do they spend in the app? We do want to make the telemetry opt-in after Warp is out of beta.

There are better ways to gather feedback, even if your application is in beta. Most loyal customers will let you know what’s wrong and what features they’re most excited about- that honest feedback is far superior than telemetry data. You can even add a survey form after the application exits to try and maximize the feedback loop.

Totally understand you’re a new venture backed business, however, you most likely are targeting the wrong group of users by automatically sending data over the internet for “no reason”.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#562

Post by dmix »

varenc wrote: post #493
nlh wrote: post #462

This is perhaps slightly orthogonal to the main discussion here on this thread, but I have a question for Zach (and the various engineers posting on this thread): Did you guys talk to real-world users while building this and before this launch? This whole blow-up re: your telemetry / open sourcey'ness seems like it could have been avoided. I'm curious if you actually floated these ideas with real world users and a) e…

There's an active Discord with 700+ Warp users. I reported issues on it and immediately got helpful replies. They're talking to lots of real-world users. My take is that the hacker news crowd is not the target market for Warp. I think it does an amazing job of making the terminal easy and friendly to infrequent users. I'd recommend it to anyone who tells me they prefer a git GUI interface over the shell because of ho…

It's got 700 upvotes atm but not HN's audience? Okay...

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#563

Post by zachlloyd »

jnovek wrote: post #99
orastor wrote: post #20

Wanted to give it a shot but got disappointed when I launched it and the following happened: - Outgoing request to googleapis.com - Outgoing request to segment.io - Outgoing request to sentry.io - Requires sign up (only via Github, mind you) I understand the first request is probably to get some dynamic configuration, even though I'd rather my terminal ship with static configuration. But then you have segment and sen…

Also: security? I expect my terminal to be a much more secure environment than my web browser. When an application starts communicating with the internet, I have no choice but to treat it with the same level of scrutiny as my browser. Even making telemetry opt-in means that it has the capability to send information to the internet that I don’t know about, which means that I have to treat it like an application that c…

As the author of the post (and founder of the company), I think this is also a very reasonable concern. It's one that we have as well and that we take very seriously.

Our stance here is that:

1) We are very explicit about what gets sent (only telemetry and crash reporting) and you can see the full list of telemetry events here (https://docs.warp.dev/getting-started/privacy#exhaustive-tel...)

2) For collaborative features like block-sharing (e.g. https://app.warp.dev/block/tbxmeAKsj657aHkPdHpmoY) it's completely opt-in

However, I do believe pretty deeply that every app has the potential to be much more powerful if it leverages the internet and I think the terminal is not an exception. I stand by that but get that it's a paradigm shift.

Please keep the feedback coming though - it's helpful to understand how you think about it.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#565

Post by maxloh »

zachlloyd wrote: post #264
wildmanx wrote: post #244

"[we want a restrictive license that] prevents another company from starting a commercial enterprise off of it" versus "our terminal model code is based on Alacritty’s model code." Well done. Sorry guys, that's where you lost me.

I understand where you're coming from. My take is that there are plenty of commercial projects that have open source dependencies so it's not quite so black and white. That said we are still figuring out the best way to proceed on open sourcing the warp client code.

How about something like GPL?

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#566

Post by banana_maker »

feanaro wrote: post #449
zachlloyd wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a good question. today warp is a terminal as you say. the hope is that we can build a platform around the command-line, but we decided by trying to start with the terminal's fundamental UX to see if we could improve it. in order to make a platform we believe first we need a great product that folks want to use.

Everyone offering "platforms" these days. It's getting really tired and I can't be bothering to pay attention. Tools is where it's at, not platforms.

Warp wants to john deere-ify our tools. Soon you won't be able to buy a hammer or table saw without some sort of platform marketing speak and a subscription service.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#567

Post by alimov »

benmmurphy wrote: post #492
alimov wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a complete telemetry section on their website where it also states that no input or output data is collected.

the problem with telemetry data is that sometimes you can accidentally collect sensitive data without realising it. i know one library on iOS was collecting the coordinates of all touch events. however, that meant it was collecting the coordinates of all touches on the keyboard which made it possible to reconstruct user input into password fields.

You’re right about there being a problem with it.

Which library was/is doing this? Would like to avoid it.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#568

Post by yoyohello13 »

deadbunny wrote: post #496
bitwize wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolutely nothing works better, it's the best by a ridiculously large margin. Then why is the telemetry-encrusted modern Windows a usability fail, even compared to past versions of Windows which relied on extensive in-house user testing?

Because power users turn off telemetry where they can which means they only see telemetry from "normal users". That's my theory anyway.

You can’t turn telemetry off in windows. Your choices are “full telemetry” and “less telemetry”

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#569

Post by user3939382 »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #58

One feature that’s missing from a surprising number of Mac terminals is a hotkey-bound non-activating dropdown (think Quake console) or HUD window (imagine a floating, frameless terminal window in the vein of the Alfred or Spotlight window). The best implementation of this to date was in TotalTerminal/Visor, which was a mod for the Apple terminal that added this feature but naturally went the way of the dodo when mac…

I have my iTerm2 hotkeyed to tilde (an homage to Quake) it instantly appears and disappears with one key.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#570

Post by zachlloyd »

warent wrote: post #226
jnovek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: security? I expect my terminal to be a much more secure environment than my web browser. When an application starts communicating with the internet, I have no choice but to treat it with the same level of scrutiny as my browser. Even making telemetry opt-in means that it has the capability to send information to the internet that I don’t know about, which means that I have to treat it like an application that c…

Agree, this is a pretty bad deal breaker for me. Big business people doing short-sighted big business things, salivating at cramming a product full of telemetry. All without transparency around it? In a terminal of all things?? Indescribably off-putting and catastrophically damages my trust in the product and the CEO. EDIT: To be fair there is some transparency in the original post. I was looking through the landing…

Hi - as the poster and founder I again completely get the concern.

We should make it even more transparent what we collect. You can see it here: https://docs.warp.dev/getting-started/privacy#exhaustive-tel...

Re: big business, we're still pretty small, but it's true that we are trying to build a business around the command-line. I get that's controversial and it's not something that exists and that the terminal is a super-sensitive low level tool.

We will never ever build a business around terminal data, and to be super explicit, we are 100% not collecting any command inputs or outputs.

The business that we want to build is around making a terminal (or a platform for text based apps) that grows because it makes individuals and teams a lot more productive on the command line.

I've there's one thing I've taken away from this ShowHN so far is that there is a lot of well-founded concern about the terminal and user data and that we need to do a better job on this issue.

Post reply on HN