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Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

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Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#551

Post by steveklabnik »

colonwqbang wrote: post #483
steveklabnik wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't the one porting Warp, but you are the one porting the shell script.

So programs/workflows written in Warp will be portable without much effort, in some way that an equivalent shell or python script isn't? Why do you think that?

It seems like you’re grouping a bunch of things together and saying I have opinions about them that I don’t. Let’s break them out:

workflows I would assume to be portable, yes. It is an assumption. I generally expect program configuration to be mostly cross platform by default.

I’m not sure what a program written for a particular terminal would be, so I’m not sure if I’d assume portability or not.

Shells are not ubiquitous, even if they are available across platforms technically.

Python is truly cross platform and largely ubiquitous.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#552

Post by maxloh »

stormbrew wrote: post #205
orastor wrote: post #20

Wanted to give it a shot but got disappointed when I launched it and the following happened: - Outgoing request to googleapis.com - Outgoing request to segment.io - Outgoing request to sentry.io - Requires sign up (only via Github, mind you) I understand the first request is probably to get some dynamic configuration, even though I'd rather my terminal ship with static configuration. But then you have segment and sen…

It's just.. an incredibly bad look to have this be the top comment on a post about this while the website claims that "cloud stuff" is opt-in. It's more essential to be honest about this during the beta period than after, so "oh it will be opt in" is a cold comfort, alongside the approximately never-true "we'll open source it some day." Not touching this with a ten foot pole. Not for something as essential to my day…

If they really wanted to be open source but don't accept contributions at the time, setting up a read only minor with a proper FOSS license will be a good way to do that.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#553

Post by nsonha »

nlh wrote: post #462

This is perhaps slightly orthogonal to the main discussion here on this thread, but I have a question for Zach (and the various engineers posting on this thread): Did you guys talk to real-world users while building this and before this launch? This whole blow-up re: your telemetry / open sourcey'ness seems like it could have been avoided. I'm curious if you actually floated these ideas with real world users and a) e…

what is it to talk about? Anything to be discussed about telemetry as a general concept, has been discussed in other products at some point. I personally think the paranoid toward telemetry is just an ideological one, I doubt people can articulate exactly how telemetry is detrimental to them.

I would not blame companies for adding telemetry for improving their product (instead of tracking user), and not explicitly tell the paranoid mob about it, as if to give them excuse not to use the product. It's not like they won't find out anyway.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#554

Post by chaxor »

nicoburns wrote: post #139
buro9 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'm ready to have SaaS models replace core utilities and tools locally. > Announcing Warp’s Series A: $17M to build a better terminal And just thinking about this... it's not clear to me what their moat will be as I suspect if there's a really compelling feature it will be available in OSS terminals quite quickly. Perhaps it's the product polish? But I'm not sure polish is what I want from a terminal, at…

I doubt their compelling features will be in OSS terminals any time soon. I’ve wanted a terminal that has a decent multi line editor for years , and there’s nothing out there.

Doesn't `set -o vi` do this for you? Place it in .bashrc and you're good to go.

It's great to use this with awesomewm for windows management, and vimium for browser control. Then you can develop in vim, bash in vim, browse in vim, and switch windows with vim. You don't have to learn 10 different, unintuitive, and ridiculous hotkeys for each different program or level.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#555

Post by maxloh »

zachlloyd wrote: post #302
stormbrew wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just.. an incredibly bad look to have this be the top comment on a post about this while the website claims that "cloud stuff" is opt-in. It's more essential to be honest about this during the beta period than after, so "oh it will be opt in" is a cold comfort, alongside the approximately never-true "we'll open source it some day." Not touching this with a ten foot pole. Not for something as essential to my day…

We tried to be really upfront in the privacy policy: https://www.warp.dev/privacy Opt-in refers to anything that sends any contents of a terminal session to our servers (as opposed to telemetry which is metadata and never contains any terminal input or output). But we hear the feedback and appreciate it.

If you really wanted to be open source but don't accept contributions at the time, setting up a read only minor with a proper FOSS license will be a good way to do that.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#556

Post by 999900000999 »

zhengt wrote: post #528
999900000999 wrote: post #346

Like almost everyone else, I really want to like this product. I imagine if it was open source, didn't have a bunch of strange network calls built in, and most importantly a third party audited the source code to make sure you're not doing anything wrong, then I'd be open to trying it. The issue here is you have a black box, which will have complete control over my system. I have no idea what happens the moment I giv…

Hi - Warp engineer here. Totally understand your skepticism and hesitation. Regarding open source, we want to do it for parts and potentially all of the code. We plan to open-source our extension points as we go. You can read more about this here https://github.com/warpdotdev/Warp/discussions/400 . We have also talked internally about having penetration testing. As for our business model, the terminal is totally free…

I'd much be more likely to pay for something like a widget that hovers next to my actual terminal, with tons of key features, tips and all that good stuff.

There's just absolutely no way I'm going to trust some random application with my sudo password.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#557

Post by chaxor »

nicoburns wrote: post #432
kreetx wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is multiline editing popular/useful? Thus far, the only occasions I've seen it shown is when someone is demonstrating it.

If you need to pass lots of arguments to a command it's super useful. Typically I don't do this because it's quite unwieldly with a standard readline editor, but I could if multiline editing was available!

Put `set -o vi` in your .bashrc

That's all you need - you don't need a whole program that collects all of your information.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#558

Post by db48x »

zhengt wrote: post #318
db48x wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I would never use a terminal that does any of that. If you want logging and crash reports, use Breakpad or something similar to send the crash report after a crash. No need to have telemetry reports going all the time.

In addition to crashes, we also want to know things like: which features people are using so we can invest more in them, how much people are using the app so we know if we're doing in a good job. Totally understand if you're not comfortable with that though! It will be removed when Warp is out of the beta test.

I know it sounds logical to you, but the further down that road you go the worse your software will be in the end. Make software with a coherent vision and you can pick and choose features based on how will they fit that vision without needing to spy on your users, or turn it into a popularity contest.

Incidentally, you might be interested to know that in the last 8 hours my comment has gotten 25 upvotes; that’s a lot of lost customers.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#559

Post by zachlloyd »

orastor wrote: post #20

Wanted to give it a shot but got disappointed when I launched it and the following happened: - Outgoing request to googleapis.com - Outgoing request to segment.io - Outgoing request to sentry.io - Requires sign up (only via Github, mind you) I understand the first request is probably to get some dynamic configuration, even though I'd rather my terminal ship with static configuration. But then you have segment and sen…

As the author of the post, I think this is totally reasonable feedback and something we have discussed quite a bit on the team.

The general stance on telemetry that we have is that a) we are just starting and it's really helpful to see which of our product ideas are useful to our users (e.g. does anyone use AI Command Search? Should we continue to invest in it) b) we tried to be very explicit about what we are and are not sending - it is only metadata and never command input or output (you can see the full list of events we track here: https://docs.warp.dev/getting-started/privacy#exhaustive-tel... c) if you aren't comfortable with telemetry, then please don't use the product just yet - we will make telemetry opt-in when we have a large enough sample size that we can be confident extrapolating what's going on

For googleapis - this is for login. We use firebase as our auth provider.

For segment - this is for temeletry, as you point out.

For sentry - this is for crash reporting.

As for why we have accounts, it's because we are starting to add features for teams and it's important in that context that there is some type of identity associated with the user.

But like I said at the start - the feedback is totally reasonable and we are trying to figure out how to balance concerns here while still being in a good place to iterate on and improve the product.

Re: Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal

#560

Post by maxloh »

cieplik wrote: post #508
nlh wrote: post #462

This is perhaps slightly orthogonal to the main discussion here on this thread, but I have a question for Zach (and the various engineers posting on this thread): Did you guys talk to real-world users while building this and before this launch? This whole blow-up re: your telemetry / open sourcey'ness seems like it could have been avoided. I'm curious if you actually floated these ideas with real world users and a) e…

Hey - in general, yes, we do talk to our Users on a regular about the product (in fact, I first participated in the research session, and only after that decided to join the company). I assume you're asking specifically about discussing telemetry and open source, not only the features. We try to be super open about collecting the data, and published an extensive list of things we report. Most of our users don't mind.…

Will Wrap licensed under a FOSS license (any of those approved by OSI or FSF) after being open sourced?
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