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Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

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Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#51
post #7

Why Github? Copying from one commercial provider to another doesn't solve the fundamental problem. Using git helps, but most of those old repos will never get cloned. In 10 years time, Github may be the tired old service that gets acquired by a hedge fund that decides to monetize their repos. Such things are part of the corporate lifecycle.

For now, Github is not ad-ridden as SourceForge is. Github is monetizing some repositories: https://github.com/pricing I don't know if they're sustainable, but from my naive point of view, closed-source projects on github pay for the hosting of open-source projects on github.

Looking at GitHub's business model, it looks a lot more sustainable than SourceForge's.

My company uses GitHub Enterprise. Unless we have some sort of deal/discount above the built-in, we're paying over $30,000/year for it and we run it on our own servers. I'm guessing a lot of other companies do as well. Developers are quite used to using both git and GitHub and $30,000 is nothing if you have a hundred developers costing you $150k a piece (not just salary, but computers, benefits, desks/office space, payroll taxes, etc).

SorceForge counted on their open-source stance limiting who would use their service and, by extension, limiting the resources they would need to serve those people. GitHub works the opposite way. They want everyone to think of GitHub as "the place I put stuff". Have a code snippet? Stick it on GitHub! Want a basic wiki for something vaguely code related? Create a GitHub repo just for the wiki! Collaborating with friends on a class project? GitHub! And then, years later, GitHub feels like second-nature to you and you love it when employers are using it paying GitHub tens of thousands a year for it.

I'm not accusing GitHub of doing something nefarious to lock people into GitHub. Just noting that GitHub feels very familiar and that makes GitHub a very reasonable choice for companies who pay them money. Without that familiarity, the value of GitHub isn't the same. If you're a company spending millions per year, $30k is a drop in the bucket for software your developers are already familiar with and software that works well, is well supported, and can handle your problem.

Yes, GitLab exists and has both open-source and enterprise versions, but I'm not sure that a business feels that differently about $5,000/year for a 100 person team and $25,000. I'm glad GitLab exists, I'm glad Bitbucket exists. They'll make sure that GitHub has to continue being great and they'll provide services to people that want something a bit different. But GitHub's business model seems pretty sound. The more people use GitHub for free, the more likely high-rollers are to pay for GitHub.

I mean, the GitHub subscription per developer costs less than the additional money my company pays for Apple gear for developers. By targeting open source with a premium, free, non-ad driven product, GitHub opened the door to lucrative business sales. They seem like a sustainable business and it even seems like the free, open-source repositories are part of that business plan.

I'm not saying that Apple gear is so overpriced or that it isn't a better platform to develop on, but we don't need retina displays to do our work. And many people argue that you don't want to force devs to work on a platform they're less productive on. The same applies to GitHub. If your devs are more productive or, heck, even happier or more comfortable using it, $250/year isn't something a company is going to blink at if it's paying $150k+ per dev - just as the company won't mind paying an extra $100, $500, or $1,000 in equipment for that dev.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#52
post #43
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absurdity of that suggestion it not absolved by the fact that someone else has said it before, or by the fact that you said it will take 'some time for it to happen'. It's completely not an option for the migration we're discussing.

It is not absurdity if it is irony and I clearly said that it can't be done now but may be in the future. I can't see the future, do you?

It's not practical, but it's a worthy goal for blockchain computing, or some descendant of it. So I am glad you brought it up.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#53
post #7

Why Github? Copying from one commercial provider to another doesn't solve the fundamental problem. Using git helps, but most of those old repos will never get cloned. In 10 years time, Github may be the tired old service that gets acquired by a hedge fund that decides to monetize their repos. Such things are part of the corporate lifecycle.

Do you have any other suggestions? Hosting these repos on donated/personal machines is (IMO) significantly less likely to stand the test of time. At least with a commercial entity there is a bit more "trust" involved that they won't disappear out of the blue one day. And if the time comes that Github starts to collapse, the process can be repeated. Just because something isn't permanent doesn't mean it's pointless.

We can't it stand test of time? Wikipedia seems to do well.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 10 years time, Github may be the tired old service that gets acquired by a hedge fund that decides to monetize their repos. Such things are part of the corporate lifecycle. So fix it in 10 years. Git makes that easy. Point me to a good alternative to github that matches all your ideals. A free alternative to github - free as in beer, unless you're willing to fund this effort yourself, of course? We migrated one…

> Point me to a good alternative to github that matches all your ideals. A free alternative to github - free as in beer, unless you're willing to fund this effort yourself, of course? Gitlab? Savannah (of the nongnu.org variety)? Bitbucket? Gitorious? A basic VPS with SSH and git?

At GitLab you are very welcome. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now, Github is not ad-ridden as SourceForge is. Github is monetizing some repositories: https://github.com/pricing I don't know if they're sustainable, but from my naive point of view, closed-source projects on github pay for the hosting of open-source projects on github.

Looking at GitHub's business model, it looks a lot more sustainable than SourceForge's. My company uses GitHub Enterprise. Unless we have some sort of deal/discount above the built-in, we're paying over $30,000/year for it and we run it on our own servers. I'm guessing a lot of other companies do as well. Developers are quite used to using both git and GitHub and $30,000 is nothing if you have a hundred developers co…

Just wanted to mention that price is not the only reason why our customers prefer GitLab. The ability to run multiple servers to support many users is one of them, others are outlined on https://about.gitlab.com/better-than-github/

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 10 years time, Github may be the tired old service that gets acquired by a hedge fund that decides to monetize their repos. Such things are part of the corporate lifecycle. So fix it in 10 years. Git makes that easy. Point me to a good alternative to github that matches all your ideals. A free alternative to github - free as in beer, unless you're willing to fund this effort yourself, of course? We migrated one…

This post should be used as study material for how the next generation of anti-GPL assaults will be done: * free (as in speech) == "Stallmen", "detached from reality" * Guerilla evangelism == "came out of their rock" * "Freedom of software" == "nice but" * Free Software Reliability == "probably shut down without warning" with a cute little pull-back at the end to make it sound like you actually don't mind FOSS. Make…

Thanks? You completely missed the point of my post if you are taking this as an assault instead of criticism of the alternatives.

So I'm going to repeat myself here:

- Savannah is shit. Zero UX effort. Atrocious home page, branding, atrocious everything. - Unfunded efforts are unreliable. Get a grip on reality, man. This isn't afound foss or proprietary or whatever - it's about having a business model. - If you think it's OK to recommend shit products as alternative to good products because of ideology, you are a detriment to the cause you claim to promote.

BTW, I'm the LXQt project lead and a huge proponent of free software. Some advice next time you attack someone, look them up.

Oh and here's another piece of advice: Don't attack people.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Point me to a good alternative to github that matches all your ideals. A free alternative to github - free as in beer, unless you're willing to fund this effort yourself, of course? Gitlab? Savannah (of the nongnu.org variety)? Bitbucket? Gitorious? A basic VPS with SSH and git?

At GitLab you are very welcome. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Props guys, I think you do an incredible job. GitLab is in fact a reasonable alternative, I should have mentioned it in my post.

The reason we went to Github rather than Sourceforge is because of the community. Nethertheless, I think it's fairly foolish to focus on the platform (in the case here of archiving) - it's just a host. Stuff goes on domain 1 instead of domain 2. In either case it's still open source, the archives are all there, git is decentralized and perfect for the job.

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At GitLab you are very welcome. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Props guys, I think you do an incredible job. GitLab is in fact a reasonable alternative, I should have mentioned it in my post. The reason we went to Github rather than Sourceforge is because of the community. Nethertheless, I think it's fairly foolish to focus on the platform (in the case here of archiving) - it's just a host. Stuff goes on domain 1 instead of domain 2. In either case it's still open source, the ar…

No problem, that for your kind comment. And feel free to update your post :)

Re: Show HN: Effort to clone unmaintained SourceForge projects to GitHub

#60
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Props guys, I think you do an incredible job. GitLab is in fact a reasonable alternative, I should have mentioned it in my post. The reason we went to Github rather than Sourceforge is because of the community. Nethertheless, I think it's fairly foolish to focus on the platform (in the case here of archiving) - it's just a host. Stuff goes on domain 1 instead of domain 2. In either case it's still open source, the ar…

No problem, that for your kind comment. And feel free to update your post :)

I would, but edits are time-limited on HN.
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