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Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

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Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#51
post #49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tired liberal arts approach of mandatory enlightenment is exactly why we have students graduating with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with no marketable skills. Students can become a well-rounded person on their own time, through the many life experiences they can afford when they are not paying off debt. I am so happy to see the world of academia get disrupted, and I cannot wait for the coming…

No it's really not. We have students in debt because they MAJOR in areas where they end up with no marketable skills. Taking a history class, a philosophy class, and a sociology class along with some economics and science helps you solve problems with people as well as the world around you. When I was in my 20s and taking those classes I found it a waste of time. Now that I'm older I'm thankful for them. Can you get…

> We have students in debt because they MAJOR in areas where they end up with no marketable skills.

I disagree. I've never hired someone based on their undergraduate major; I rarely know what they are. The skills imparted by an undergraduate educational institution are very valuable, but not directly applicable to professional work, and that even applies to graduate schools such as law, for example -- no law firm cares what classes you took or believes those skills qualify you to do that kind of work; they care you learned to write, think, and work like an attorney well enough to apprentice you to a real one. Professional learning, in every field I can think of, starts with your first job as an apprentice. Most fields consider a graduate degree to be the minimum serious credential.

And after a few years in the professional world, nobody even considers your undergraduate major. Name your co-workers' or any tech leaders'. Does anyone mention it in their HN profile? Could you imagine being asked about it in an interview?

> Can you get well-rounded on your own? Depends. If you only read what people in your bubble tell you to, maybe not so much. Having someone else curate things for you to read, reflect on, discuss, and do has great value in my opinion.

I'd take it much further. I think people underestimate the value of a college environment. You get a cirriculum designed by an expert in the field, and then their personal tutoring. You are surrounded by resources unmatched elsewhere, from research libraries, to a room full of peers, to labs (if applicable), to a department full of experts available to talk to you. Want to learn about a subject? Try going to the office hours of a professor who spent their life studying it, and see if they have time for you. How do you even know which books to read? Which are respected in their field? What are their strengths and weaknesses and who will contextualize them for you?

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#52
What is the deal with this?:

You'll need a mac laptop purchased in the last 2 years running the latest version of OS X and an iPhone or iPod touch running the latest version of iOS. We provide need-based hardware assistance for students who can't afford a mac or iPod.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#53
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"intuitively it seems pretty high risk" for who?

For the company. Depending on how it is implemented, taking a cut of the first 2 years' salary could be very high risk. Intuitively there seems to be little to stop someone taking the education and then absconding abroad.

it's be interesting to know how a situation where student takes school, then starts their own company and pays themselves ramen salary is handled

seems like a good portion of their target market might have something like that in mind

also (opportunity cost of two years and having to live in one of the more expensive real estate markets in the US isn't exactly risk free for the student either)

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#54
Neat. Would be interesting to see a more detailed syllabus of what is covered when. Also is the 25% rake net or gross? It is two years full time (well 1.5 if you consider internship) so I don't think it is really fair to compare it to a 3 month program.

At my local university doing 3x semesters of just CS classes leaves you 1 course short of the required CS courses for a degree. Mind you I'm not including the math requirements. But on the other hand this is probably more intensive and with a better student/teacher ratio arguably you will be learning stuff quicker. Not to say they are equivalent... but I'm not sure its fair to write it off as being "code monkey" school.

Not a fan of the location choice though. I get that SF has a lot of really good networking opportunities but for a two year program it is crazy expensive. The difference in rent compared to where I live makes this more expensive than attending university. If I was to get an apartment with equivalent square footage to what I have now the cost of this would actually be pretty close to doing a 4 year degree. That's before factoring in the 25% rake. Mind you I'm in a relatively inexpensive Canadian city.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#55
As someone who took their online gaming course I wouldn't have anything to do with these guys.

They abandoned Make games with us and have been spamming my inbox with at least 3 different business models since then, this being their latest one.

The online gaming course had buggy code and horrible stumbling lessons. I heard about them on here and was conned out of $100. Stay away from these scammers.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#56
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they're looking for top students , so presumably their competitors are MIT, CMU, Stanford, etc. rather than the local Community College. Trade schools are great things, but I'm not sure I could feel comfortable advising a student to turn down MIT for a trade school, even one with really great connections.

considering the price tag of those schools, they should be the most vulnerable to competition

It's not price tag alone that makes them vulnerable, it's price tag to value ratio. I would gladly take out $200K in loans for an education that would guarantee a $300K+ salary out of school.

Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average seems to suggest that the expense is plenty justified. Will this offering be able to compete at all in the value delivered dimension? It seems like comparing apples and oranges.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#57
Given enough effort and determination I can totally see how this could work. Maybe you won't be a programming god but I can totally see how those 2 productive years easily replace a 5 year CS masters course.

High schools, colleges, universities often have boring teaching programs that force everybody to learn at the same speed, programs that look like a progress bar (The Matrix training program?) In real life we can't ask Tank to load the Networking course from a floppy disk and yet that's what metaphorically most Universities are trying to do.

Because of that kind of system we are maybe 10-20% as productive as we could be. We are bored with exercises and we don't really want to do leaving them till the last moment before the deadline. Now, take a moment go back to your ol' university years and think. When did you learn the most? In labs and lectures? Or when you thought "It would be cool to do a 2048 clone that negotiates every move with the server side that you cannot cheat"? You got excited, spent a week coding, learning new things, redoing, rebuilding, learning even more. I remember doing project of that kind in my 1st year of the University. Over the Christmas holiday I learnt more than in the past 3 months at uni...

Yeah I could totally see the Make School work. At least I hope it will ;)

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#58
post #45

Sorry, but 25% of a persons salary for two years is a ridiculous amount of money. With a first year programmer making $75-$85k this cost will be similar to college debt. Will these payments qualify as tuition and be tax deductible? That could soften the blow slightly. I like the idea that companies will pay the school for their candidates and relieve the student burden. But why not go all-in on this model and just gu…

you are aware of what most higher-end 4 year colleges cost? i think 25% of two years wages is a lot less debt than many are left with.

Re: Show HN: Make School – College replacement for founders and developers

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

considering the price tag of those schools, they should be the most vulnerable to competition

It's not price tag alone that makes them vulnerable, it's price tag to value ratio. I would gladly take out $200K in loans for an education that would guarantee a $300K+ salary out of school. Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average seems to suggest that the expense is plenty justified. Will this offering be able to compete at all in the value delivered…

"Current statistics on average salaries for those schools in EECS disciplines compared to industry average"

do you have a source for that?

also keep in mind that those schools are starting with more capable students going in

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