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Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

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Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#51
post #49

Hey everybody, creator here. Let me know if you have any questions/comments/feature requests - I'm going to keep working on this.

Thanks for sharing. Can you talk a bit about your decision to lean on categories so much? I'd personally prefer to see a few more base clases and DRY it up a bit. EDIT: And maybe everything inside a single header to include?

Great question. For classes with sufficiently rich customization options (UISlider, UIStepper, UIBarButtonItem, etc) I don't think it's necessary to provide a full-on subclass, as ultimately I'm not really changing what the class does. I'm really just providing a mixin for a particular set of UI customizations (setting colors, etc), which categories are perfect for.

Some classes (UIAlertView and UISwitch, most particularly) aren't very flexible in terms of appearance customization, so I had to reimplement them to achieve desired effects. Using them is more difficult: to use an FUISwitch (my UISwitch clone) you have to replace any UISwitches in your app with FUISwitches (also, if you were using categories/subclasses of UISwitch to do some custom stuff, they would break).

Moving logic to a base class isn't really possible, as most of those classes already inherit from UIControl (and I'm not crazy/motivated enough to reimplement them all from scratch - UIKit is awesome, and I want to lean on it as much as possible).

The single header totally makes sense, I'll be sure to add that.

TL;DR: UIKit is great, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, categories are really easy to integrate into existing projects.

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#52

Hey everybody, creator here. Let me know if you have any questions/comments/feature requests - I'm going to keep working on this.

This total disregard for platform conventions does your users a disservice by making moot the effort they've spent learning how the platform operates and what to expect from UI elements and interactions. On top of that, you have to reinvent all the native components you otherwise would get for free, and your app looks like an ugly odd duckling on the platform. Why do this? It demonstrates an insane level of condensio…

Have you looked at the code? This is not reinventing the components. This is basically UIKit with a few things added to it.

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#53

Hey everybody, creator here. Let me know if you have any questions/comments/feature requests - I'm going to keep working on this.

This total disregard for platform conventions does your users a disservice by making moot the effort they've spent learning how the platform operates and what to expect from UI elements and interactions. On top of that, you have to reinvent all the native components you otherwise would get for free, and your app looks like an ugly odd duckling on the platform. Why do this? It demonstrates an insane level of condensio…

>This total disregard for platform conventions does your users a disservice by making moot the effort they've spent learning how the platform operates and what to expect from UI elements and interactions.

I call BS.

Does Letterpress also exhibit a "total disregard for platform conventions"? Does Google Maps iOS app? Does Clear (the TODO app)? Does Paper? Even if so, the users are more than happy with them, and tons of other similar apps besides.

It's not 1993 and this is not Mac Word 6.0. In iOS apps are MEANT to be visually distinct and try new interaction paradigms.

Heck, even Apple has stopped advocating the blind devotion to the User Interface Guidelines document, and experiments itself with different looks (and sometimes feel) from app to app. And this has been going on for at least 5 years.

Besides, this project merely adds new visual look. Underneath it uses the regular widgets (it adds Obj-C categories to change the visual appearance), so it's just a new "theme", not a new "feel".

>On top of that, you have to reinvent all the native components you otherwise would get for free

Errr, that's kind of the whole point.

>and your app looks like an ugly odd duckling on the platform.

Or like a special unique snowflake. Like Clear. Or Paper. Or tons of other apps.

>Why do this? It demonstrates an insane level of condension towards your users, the platform they've chosen, and the time they've spent learning it.

I only discern an insane level of pissing on others people work, that they also provide for free as open source and you can very much choose not to use it or not buy any app that uses it. That, and an insane level of self-righteousness (on this response, not on the project).

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flat UI has become a common theme on a number of popular iOS apps. Spotify, Yelp, Truila, Google Maps etc. have all moved to flat UI recently... are all of those apps "disregarding platform conventions?" Of course not. If anything, they have made flat UI a convention in itself, just like pull-down-to-refresh, large center tab buttons and slide-right navigation weren't originally/aren't native widgets, but have become…

> ... Google Maps etc. I don't use the others, but I often get confused using Google Maps because I have no idea what all the new/unusual UI elements do. Once I learn Google Maps' way of doing things, I don't want to have to learn a new way for every other app, too. More to the point, I'd rather not have to learn how to use Google Maps' nonstandard UI to begin with. > The rumor is that iOS 7 is going to change to a f…

>I don't use the others, but I often get confused using Google Maps because I have no idea what all the new/unusual UI elements do.

Yes, from the comments here, I can see that you must easily get confused by many things. Door handles, the pavement, etc.

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the vitriol from this coming from? This isn't some massive new UI paradigm, it's effectively a theme! And a handsome one, at that.

> This isn't some massive new UI paradigm ... Flat UI isn't some massive new UI paradigm? I thought that's exactly what it is. > ... it's effectively a theme! One of the major components of the success and pleasantness of iOS -- and Mac OS X before it -- has been platform consistency. Apple has made a study of this, and that's part of what users are buying when they buy Apple's products. Dismantling that consistency…

>Flat UI isn't some massive new UI paradigm? I thought that's exactly what it is.

Then you were wrong.

Flat UI is merely a graphic design choice. If affects the look and overall design of the user interface (flat colors, no drop shadows, remove frills, etc).

Everything you otherwise know about the UI and how it works remains the same. Buttons are still buttons, text entry boxes behave as before, radio buttons still let you choose one option, sliders slide, etc etc. You can have a flat UI in Gnome, say, just buy changing the GTK theme to use a flat UI design. Nothing "massive new UI paradigm" about it.

CLI to GUI is a "massive new UI paradigm". GUI to Touch GUI is a "massive new UI paradigm". 3D (if somebody implements it in any way that makes sense) would be a "massive new UI paradigm".

Flat UI is merely a theme change -- plus the adoption of a less ornamental design sensibility. The apps still behave and interact the same. You just don't get corinthian lever, faux-wood bookshelves and old Braun tape machines.

>There certainly can be a fine line between building on the platform standards and dismantling them, but rewriting all UI components is very much on the side of "dismantling".

Like Apple Pro apps vs regular Apple OS X apps, right? Since they do have ALL the UI components changed. Or like iBooks vs standard iOS look. And tons of other cases where Apple did the same.

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#56
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of the top apps on the App Store don't theme iOS?

Which of the top apps look like https://www.joingrouper.com/assets/new_landing/OnboardingScr... ?

What the fuck does this has to do with anything?

None of the top apps look like this, because this is a new app, and the theme has just been released.

But you didn't rant against THIS specific theme and how it looks. You ranted against theming iOS, period. You said it's a disservice to the users, users don't like it, etc.

So, answer me and the parent this: is that's so, why tons of top selling and downloaded apps, the most popular ones by users and critics, are heavily themed? Letterpress, Clear, Paper, Google Maps, Evernote, iA Writer, Vine, Flipboard, etc etc.

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This total disregard for platform conventions does your users a disservice by making moot the effort they've spent learning how the platform operates and what to expect from UI elements and interactions. On top of that, you have to reinvent all the native components you otherwise would get for free, and your app looks like an ugly odd duckling on the platform. Why do this? It demonstrates an insane level of condensio…

Disregard this feedback. Do you know how to use a blue pencil instead of the standard yellow? I thought so. These controls maintain the overall look and feel of the native components while just giving them a different skin. Sheesh, even Apple recognized that developers wanted to give their own look to controls by giving them Appearance hooks. You know what else you get by coding your own UI components that mimic nati…

> Disregard this feedback.

Just like you waved off similar HN feedback on your Exec app? Right on.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4806630

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#59
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never wished HN had a "Ban Button" before today. He released something that represents a lot of work on his part and you come in here and shit on it. If you don't like it you move along, you don't wage a holy war of negative comments.

So your suggestion for propagating 35 years of community norms that have made Mac OS, Mac OS X and iOS successful is to not say anything when newcomers ignore those norms?

No, our suggestion is:

1) be less rude in your pissing on other people's work they offer for free.

2) Wake up and smell the HIG-is-obsolete coffee, the HIG has been not important for the most successful apps for years, and even Apple has toned down their insistence on it half a decade or so ago, including making tons of apps with different looks and even feel (from the iTunes vertical close buttons, to Dashboard widgets, to the totally different Pro apps Look and Feel ever since 2007 or so, to the App Store UI, to numerous other examples all around).

Gruber (an old fierce supporter of the HIG back in the day) has written about this:

http://daringfireball.net/2011/01/uniformity_vs_individualit...

Re: Show HN: FlatUIKit - Flat UI components for iOS

#60
I'm going to say something that many won't like, but I feel very strongly about it.

  --
Please stop wasting time on pretentious designer bullshit like this. Skinning is great for in-game HUDs, but making a regular repeated-use app look completely alien against native look and feel is one of the worst things one can do.

Some customizations here and there are fine and all successful apps notable for their UI do it to a degree. This is what gives an app its personality and character, but note that it's done through meticulous visual polish and attention to details. On the other hand, if you are running on a device that uses inherently skeuomorphic styling and a specific font, then going all flat, green and Proxima Nova is like walking into a cocktail party in flip-flops and a pirate hat. Sure, it will give some people a chuckle and make everyone notice, but it will also make you look like an eccentric dork. And sure as hell it will make hosts think twice about ever inviting you again.

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