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Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

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Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#51

Post by _aavaa_ »

embedding-shape wrote: post #50
thih9 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I don’t get about this whole AI push. It’s a global rug that everyone plans to pull, it’s sold at cost, it already presents major risks, everyone seems to be aware of all that and yet - the consumers and lawmakers are relatively quiet.

Say all the SOTA (remote) LLMs went away tonight, would programmers everywhere suddenly be giving up on programming? Maybe some, but unlikely that most would. It's not so much of a rug-pull if it's an inconvenience at most when it goes away. Maybe some would take some time to readjust (some days/weeks/months?), but then it'd be back to normal again.

Short of outlawing all models, I don’t see a world in which we ever go back to only manual coding.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#52

Post by altmanaltman »

adamddev1 wrote: post #13

One of the cool things about code is that you can build stuff out of thin air, basically for free. It's not like woodworking where you have to pay for the wood. We are moving into a weird time where people are assuming that now we have to pay machines churn out code. Somehow they packaged up our own ability to think and are selling it back to us. If they can get us to forget how to do it we'll be the perfect customer…

You can only build it for free if you don't value your time. That is good for personal projects and hobbies but which company can build stuff without costs? There was always an expense to generating code. Plus you have to pay for equipment, electricity, subscriptions to stuff for their staff etc.

I don't really think they are packaging up ability to think abd selling it back to you. There is nothing stopping you from not using AI and even companies, many firms just dont trust AI and don't use it.

But the idea that code could be built of thin air is not true in case of actual businesses.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#53

Post by grrinkarthi »

Really interesting solution to the AI PR problem. Keeping the maintainers in the driver's seat for issue prioritization is definitely the right approach.

How are you handling the token allocation under the hood, is this managed via a GitHub App integration, and can backers target specific issues or just the repo as a whole?

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#54

Post by pempem »

thih9 wrote: post #42
adamddev1 wrote: post #13

One of the cool things about code is that you can build stuff out of thin air, basically for free. It's not like woodworking where you have to pay for the wood. We are moving into a weird time where people are assuming that now we have to pay machines churn out code. Somehow they packaged up our own ability to think and are selling it back to us. If they can get us to forget how to do it we'll be the perfect customer…

That’s what I don’t get about this whole AI push. It’s a global rug that everyone plans to pull, it’s sold at cost, it already presents major risks, everyone seems to be aware of all that and yet - the consumers and lawmakers are relatively quiet.

Its happening at a global moment of chaotic behavior. When prices are soaring, information and institutions are disintermediated, jobs are hard to come by and layoffs easy, insurance is tied to your job and your kids' well being to your location -- well, most people get real quiet about stuff.

Even then I think a LOT of people are saying something but the narrative mechanism of inevitability is really strong.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#55

Post by lou1306 »

skeledrew wrote: post #32
lou1306 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually hire a developer to work on that issue and not something else.

Pretty much what this ensures. Just that the "developer" is a LLM agent.

Yeah except that the agent cannot be held accountable if its fix is crap, or if it went off-track mid-fix.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#56

Post by RetroTechie »

embedding-shape wrote: post #50
thih9 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what I don’t get about this whole AI push. It’s a global rug that everyone plans to pull, it’s sold at cost, it already presents major risks, everyone seems to be aware of all that and yet - the consumers and lawmakers are relatively quiet.

Say all the SOTA (remote) LLMs went away tonight, would programmers everywhere suddenly be giving up on programming? Maybe some, but unlikely that most would. It's not so much of a rug-pull if it's an inconvenience at most when it goes away. Maybe some would take some time to readjust (some days/weeks/months?), but then it'd be back to normal again.

> Say all the SOTA (remote) LLMs went away tonight

Most likely that would cause company pulling the rug on their frontier model(s), to fall over themselves. Meanwhile the competition keeps going. Hence no top AI player does that unless forced to.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#57

Post by skeledrew »

lou1306 wrote: post #55
skeledrew wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much what this ensures. Just that the "developer" is a LLM agent.

Yeah except that the agent cannot be held accountable if its fix is crap, or if it went off-track mid-fix.

Pretty straight-forward solution: donors or maintainers don't use the service if it isn't good. But the maintainer is "accountable" (to the extent one maintaining a OSS project is) as they're the one actually providing the prompts and doing QA.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#58

Post by anamexis »

skeledrew wrote: post #45
anamexis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how that's related to your initial question of "How do you ensure that funds ear-marked for a donor-specified issue goes toward that issue and not something else?" If you want that, negotiate a contract.

The point is to get something funded. That's the goal. And negotiation doesn't scale. You can bet that nobody will negotiate contracts with 20 maintainers if they want particular features/fixes for 20 different projects that they're using. Otherwise it would be a thing today. But instead we have these attempts and stopgaps, some of which have had some success here and there. This is something else in that pool making…

I don’t think companies are donating to 20 different maintainers in the hopes of getting 20 different specific features implemented, either.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#59

Post by skeledrew »

anamexis wrote: post #58
skeledrew wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to get something funded. That's the goal. And negotiation doesn't scale. You can bet that nobody will negotiate contracts with 20 maintainers if they want particular features/fixes for 20 different projects that they're using. Otherwise it would be a thing today. But instead we have these attempts and stopgaps, some of which have had some success here and there. This is something else in that pool making…

I don’t think companies are donating to 20 different maintainers in the hopes of getting 20 different specific features implemented, either.

I wasn't thinking about companies at all. Companies tend to only contribute to well-known projects, which leaves a very long tail.

I'm thinking about the far more random regular people using random projects that may not be that popular. Like I just did a rough count of the OSS apps on my phone: 60+. Of those there are 5 that I can immediately think of improvements that I'd like. One of them I've actually made improvements to already because it was a dead project that I really like and so had to revive anyway. And I used Claude to work on it as I'm not a mobile dev; been planning to republish but haven't gotten around to it. I won't bother to check my laptop but there's even more there.

Now imagine if I (and others interested in those projects) could contribute to small funding pools for various projects of interest, with the assurance that said funds go to that feature/fix which is of interest or gets refunded. I think that'd result in the general OSS support needle being pushed that much further over time.

Re: Show HN: CleverCrow: give tokens to your favorite projects

#60

Post by zhubert »

grrinkarthi wrote: post #53

Really interesting solution to the AI PR problem. Keeping the maintainers in the driver's seat for issue prioritization is definitely the right approach. How are you handling the token allocation under the hood, is this managed via a GitHub App integration, and can backers target specific issues or just the repo as a whole?

I've got a couple good docs in the footer of www.clevercrow.io that will answer the token stuff. GitHub app integration for all repo interaction. Yep, backers can target specific issues or entire repos, their choice.
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