51–60 of 84 posts
Looks cool! Does it work outdoors too? And can it be battery-powered?
This is a signal that I need to get off of Wifi altogether. The data from CSI and BFI are too insecure and no one cares about the privacy concerns. I'm sure ICE agents are going to love this technology.
This tech is at least a decade old.
Without having the time right now to dig too deep, I have a few questions: 1. Does it have any idea of the range at which motion is happening, relative to the distance between nodes or otherwise? 2. Can it correlate motion with that of another WiFi or Bluetooth device? So if I'm carrying my phone and it can see me moving, can it tell that it's me? 3. What's the movement -> signal latency?
Thanks for the questions. 1. As of now it only knows whether there is motion in the zone or not. Actual (x,y) coordinates within the zone are theoretically possible and something I have on the roadmap for 2026. 2. No, it doesn't correlate with other devices currently. But Wi-Fi sensing can theoretically identify who is moving by analyzing how you disrupt the signal. We all have unique movement patterns. I actually ha…
With 2, I'm trying to think how effectively it could replace something like ESPresense. With that you've got a BLE tag with an ID that you can just associate with a person, so there's no learning of moving patterns needed, but getting it to be accurate to a room is a nightmare. It also works when there's no movement, which is convenient, and you can put the tag down if you don't want to be tracked. The ergonomics are just a bit nicer, it's just the resolution that sucks.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Wi-Fi sensing as a broader technology could theoretically be used for surveillance if someone controlled devices on both sides of your walls. It's similar to other wireless technologies in that regard. The key is controlling your own hardware. Does this mean that a nosy neighbor or someone else who wanted to surveil your residence could accomplish this by placing multiple devices around but not necessarily on your p…
While theoretically possible, this would be a very involved surveillance method compared to simpler alternatives that already exist (cameras with telephoto lenses, thermal imaging, simply watching schedules, etc.). Wi-Fi sensing isn't easier or more covert than existing methods. At the current state of the technology, other methods are far more suitable for people who want to spy on others. The effective range of eac…
For my own use case as simple mesh array that would alert me to movement within certain parts of the property that I have set aside as garden or orchard plots would really be useful. I have lost numerous fruit trees to deer, especially in winter cold spells and over time learned that the only effective method of guaranteeing plant survival over winter is area denial. I accomplished this over the last couple of years using deer fencing products to establish areas where large animals have no access. In the process, I also found a use case for a security camera to monitor an area to see which animals regularly passed by or through.
Over a period of years I have seen lots of animal tracks but direct sightings have been rare. Using the security camera as a game camera has restored my confidence in animal ID from tracks alone since I have managed to capture still photos and video of the animals that I was pretty sure were visiting my place to validate what I believed based on the tracks alone. I hunted and trapped when I was a kid into high school so it is good to see that, though I have not needed them and have rarely used them, I have not totally lost those skills in the ensuing 40+ years.
I can see an array like this as quite useful in a garden space for identifying which plants need protection from squirrels, opossums, raccoons, etc and where the feral cats are squatting so that I don't inadvertently dredge up something unwholesome while working the soil. My cameras have demonstrated that they can detect and alert to things as small as a wasp or beetle moving across the FoV so if I can set something up to track the path of grasshoppers through the garden then I can potentially see where they are laying eggs cases and disrupt that soil before they can hatch next season.
This is all really interesting stuff. I look forward to joining the Discord group and to picking up a few ESPs for testing.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
While theoretically possible, this would be a very involved surveillance method compared to simpler alternatives that already exist (cameras with telephoto lenses, thermal imaging, simply watching schedules, etc.). Wi-Fi sensing isn't easier or more covert than existing methods. At the current state of the technology, other methods are far more suitable for people who want to spy on others. The effective range of eac…
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. A long time ago there was a paper published, by MIT I think showing a similar setup to use WiFi as a surveillance tool for motion detection through walls. It was interesting at the time and something that I have thought about quite a bit over the years without ever actually doing anything myself. I think at heart I have been waiting for someone like yourself to make it all easy enough…
Your garden/wildlife management use case is very interesting. Way more creative than typical smart home automation. The real-time detection should help with that camera lag issue you mentioned, and the through-wall sensing could monitor areas that are hard to place cameras.
Please create a thread in the Discord channel about this use case. I think it's really interesting and other users might have good ideas for your setup. Would love to see how it works out for you!
No apologies needed for the wall of text. This is exactly the kind of creative applications I was hoping people would think of.
Very cool. How does it work in an apartment building? both practically not detecting my neighbors movement. But also from a privacy standpoint, can someone spy on me with this technology?
Great questions. Neighbor detection: I haven't had issues with neighbor movement affecting detection in my testing. The devices form a mesh within your defined zone, so they're primarily sensing disruptions between your own nodes. If you do experience false positives, there's a sensitivity adjustment in the dashboard. Privacy/spying: In TOMMY, I've explicitly disabled the ability to use devices outside your own netwo…
Wi-Fi sensing is passive, i.e. only one side of the wall is needed.
Without having the time right now to dig too deep, I have a few questions: 1. Does it have any idea of the range at which motion is happening, relative to the distance between nodes or otherwise? 2. Can it correlate motion with that of another WiFi or Bluetooth device? So if I'm carrying my phone and it can see me moving, can it tell that it's me? 3. What's the movement -> signal latency?
Thanks for the questions. 1. As of now it only knows whether there is motion in the zone or not. Actual (x,y) coordinates within the zone are theoretically possible and something I have on the roadmap for 2026. 2. No, it doesn't correlate with other devices currently. But Wi-Fi sensing can theoretically identify who is moving by analyzing how you disrupt the signal. We all have unique movement patterns. I actually ha…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great questions. Neighbor detection: I haven't had issues with neighbor movement affecting detection in my testing. The devices form a mesh within your defined zone, so they're primarily sensing disruptions between your own nodes. If you do experience false positives, there's a sensitivity adjustment in the dashboard. Privacy/spying: In TOMMY, I've explicitly disabled the ability to use devices outside your own netwo…
> Wi-Fi sensing as a broader technology could theoretically be used for surveillance if someone controlled devices on both sides of your walls. Wi-Fi sensing is passive, i.e. only one side of the wall is needed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45488908#45546394
There are also techniques that use one controlled device and leverage ambient Wi-Fi signals from uncontrolled sources (like a neighbor's router), but TOMMY explicitly disables all options for using devices outside your own network. It only works with ESP32s you've flashed and added to your system.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the questions. 1. As of now it only knows whether there is motion in the zone or not. Actual (x,y) coordinates within the zone are theoretically possible and something I have on the roadmap for 2026. 2. No, it doesn't correlate with other devices currently. But Wi-Fi sensing can theoretically identify who is moving by analyzing how you disrupt the signal. We all have unique movement patterns. I actually ha…
Ah, I was hoping (at least rough) coordinates were something that this would do. I have HA and have been looking at mmwave devices for that use case. For things like "turn on a light, but only once I've sat down in the chair."