Some people praised Go as a better language for the use case than PHP. I’d say Elixir is even better. It can handle massive concurrency easy, can be made distributed easy, has a built-in, in-memory, key-value store (ETS), and is probably the best high-level language for anything that’s facing the network.
Show HN: A Better Log Service
51–60 of 109 posts
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#52What in the world does this mean? https://txtlog.net/doc#:~:text=use%20your%20local%20time%20w... That's made twice as bad by the "we throw away Z because you were just kidding by including it". That leads me to believe that any RFC 3339 that isn't automatically Z (e.g. 1996-12-19T16:39:57-08:00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3339#section-5.8 >) is ... well, I don't know what it's going to do but it likely…
Off-topic, but thanks for the neat trick with
url#:~:text=blahRe: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#53the 'easy to use' / 'view' was very nice. if you could add the actual session logs in it would be amazing.
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#54I’m curious about the open source nature of this and how you / people in general manage a project where you are hosting it and need to maintain its security, but are also presumably merging pull requests as people contribute to the project. I would be quite paranoid about this, ie concerned that someone might slip a line of code in with the intent of breaching the service that I would not catch during code review. I…
Just because a project is “open source” doesn’t actually mean you must accept or even merge PRs from others. After reading others pointing this out my opinion of managing open source projects have significantly changed. Of course, you can entertain PRs and see if the idea behind them is sound but not accept the raw code from others and implement the features they way you envision instead. Keep in mind it’s always possible to have a vulnerability without anyone else’s assistance. This is especially true if you use dependencies, as you don’t keep track of every line of code they add.
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#55What in the world does this mean? https://txtlog.net/doc#:~:text=use%20your%20local%20time%20w... That's made twice as bad by the "we throw away Z because you were just kidding by including it". That leads me to believe that any RFC 3339 that isn't automatically Z (e.g. 1996-12-19T16:39:57-08:00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3339#section-5.8 >) is ... well, I don't know what it's going to do but it likely…
Off-topic, but thanks for the neat trick with url#:~:text=blah
It's actually a standard! https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Text_fragments It can do a bunch of awesome stuff, but the text= one is the one I use the most
I finally started using it when it landed on Firefox release (although, in true Firefox fashion, they give no fucks about the UX forcing me to install an extension that is "create link to selection")
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#56This looks very interesting! My suggestion for the self-hosting is to create docker images and use docker-compose. The self-hosting currently is a bit of effort to setup. I also wonder if PHP is a good language for this. For the UI, yea that's fine and makes sense. But for the log processor that's going to need to handle a high throughput which PHP just isn't good at. For the same resources, you can have Go doing tho…
> PHP doing hundreds of requests per second. You may want to update your understanding of PHP and Go's speed . Both of your estimates are off by a couple orders of magnitude on commodity hardware. There are also numerous ways to make PHP extremely fast today (e.g. swoole, ngx_php, or frankenphp) instead of the 1999 best practice of apache with mod_php. Go is absolutely an excellent choice, but your opinion on PHP is…
As soon as you add C#, ASP.NET Core shoots to the top of the Fortune stack.
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that "bottleneck" is thousands of requests per second then it doesn't really matter for smaller deployments does it? (Which seems to be the target audience and not FAANG) I'm not a big fan when folks call out languages as bottlenecks when they have no proof on the actual overhead and how much faster it would be in another language.
To tweak a PHP deployment to handle hundreds of requests per second which is very very realistic for a basic logging for a mid-sized application you're looking at having a very beefy server setup. Most PHP deployments barely reach a hundred per server. And this is an open source project is should be designed to handle basic production workloads which it could but it'll cost you a bunch more than if you used the corre…
I rebuilt durable-functions in php. Durable Functions is a C# actor model runtime. My PHP implementation meets or exceeds the same benchmarks as the C# version.
> It could be easily proven by doing a bunch of work but obviously there is no point in me proving it.
Because you cannot prove it... :) I wrote this post a few years ago, that actually spurned some improvements in C# ... so here you go: https://withinboredom.info/2022/03/16/yes-php-is-faster-than...
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#58This looks very interesting! My suggestion for the self-hosting is to create docker images and use docker-compose. The self-hosting currently is a bit of effort to setup. I also wonder if PHP is a good language for this. For the UI, yea that's fine and makes sense. But for the log processor that's going to need to handle a high throughput which PHP just isn't good at. For the same resources, you can have Go doing tho…
> PHP doing hundreds of requests per second. You may want to update your understanding of PHP and Go's speed . Both of your estimates are off by a couple orders of magnitude on commodity hardware. There are also numerous ways to make PHP extremely fast today (e.g. swoole, ngx_php, or frankenphp) instead of the 1999 best practice of apache with mod_php. Go is absolutely an excellent choice, but your opinion on PHP is…
What you're talking about is generally not considered production-ready. While you can use these tools you will almost certainly run into problems. I know this because as an active PHP developer for over a decade I'm very much paying attention to that field of PHP.
What we see here is a classic case of benchmarks saying one thing when the reality of production code says something else.
Also, I used go as a generic example of compiled languages. But what we see is production-grade Go languages outperforming non-production-ready experimental PHP tooling.
And if we go to look at all of them https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&s...
We'll see that even the experimental PHP solution is 43 and being beat out by compiled languages.
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#59I’m curious about the open source nature of this and how you / people in general manage a project where you are hosting it and need to maintain its security, but are also presumably merging pull requests as people contribute to the project. I would be quite paranoid about this, ie concerned that someone might slip a line of code in with the intent of breaching the service that I would not catch during code review. I…
Just because a project is “open source” doesn’t actually mean you must accept or even merge PRs from others. After reading others pointing this out my opinion of managing open source projects have significantly changed. Of course, you can entertain PRs and see if the idea behind them is sound but not accept the raw code from others and implement the features they way you envision instead. Keep in mind it’s always pos…
> This is especially true if you use dependencies, as you don’t keep track of every line of code they add.
You absolutely should vendor your dependencies and review them before accepting the new version. Even though they are dependencies, you are ultimately responsible for using them. "They are just dependencies" doesn't absolve you of responsibility.
Re: Show HN: A Better Log Service
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
To tweak a PHP deployment to handle hundreds of requests per second which is very very realistic for a basic logging for a mid-sized application you're looking at having a very beefy server setup. Most PHP deployments barely reach a hundred per server. And this is an open source project is should be designed to handle basic production workloads which it could but it'll cost you a bunch more than if you used the corre…
I rebuilt durable-functions in php. Durable Functions is a C# actor model runtime. My PHP implementation meets or exceeds the same benchmarks as the C# version. > It could be easily proven by doing a bunch of work but obviously there is no point in me proving it. Because you cannot prove it... :) I wrote this post a few years ago, that actually spurned some improvements in C# ... so here you go: https://withinboredom…
No, it's because I've got productive things to do that do benchmarks that have already been done repeatedly. The only way to get PHP to the same speed as compiled languages for web requests is to use experimental tooling.
I notice your benchmarks are over 10 runs?! That's not a good sample size. And even more importantly, it's not in the same context.
Sure once you compile PHP and have it running it'll run fast. But PHP has a very specific usage which is web applications. It's been well-known for years that PHP's performance issues are related to the fact it's an interpreted language that has to be interpreted everytime but if you compile and run repeatedly it can perform extremely well. Which is why every performance related PHP nerd is working on experimental tools to do that.