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Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

goodfire.ai

51–57 of 57 posts

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#51
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a vast middle ground between completely unregulated technology and an Orwellian state. Let's not entertain absolutes. > We let people buy 6,000 pound vehicles capable of traveling 100+ mph. > We let people buy sharp knives and guns. And heat their homes with flammable gas. And hike up dangerous tall mountains. All of those have regulations around them, and people have gotten familiar with how they work. More…

> We created strict regulations that plane manufacturers and airlines must follow In response to actual incidents, not imagined ones. Regulations should not come first. We already have the biggest companies chasing after a regulatory moat to protect themselves from competition and commoditization, and that's not how this should work. > we took precautions to ensure the necessary safety. No we didn't! We used the tech…

> In response to actual incidents, not imagined ones.

Not _just_ in response to actual incidents. Airplanes don't need to crash for us to realize that flying is dangerous. Pilot licenses were required as early as 1911[1], years before the commercial aviation industry was established. International regulations were passed in 1919[2], when the aviation industry was still in its infancy.

> Europe is a good model for a presumptive, over-regulated society. Their comparable industries are smaller and lag behind our own because of it.

The EU is one of the few governments that at least tries to protect its citizens from Big Tech. Whatever you think it's lagging behind in, I'd say they're better off for it. And yet even with all this "over-regulation", industry-leading giants like ASML and Airbus, and tech startups like Spotify, Klarna and Bolt are able to exist and prosper.

> Even laws and regulations proposed for mature technologies can be completely spurious.

I'm not saying that more regulation is always a good thing. I lean towards libertarianism. What I do think is important is to give enough time for society and governments to catch up to the technology being put out into the world, especially with something as disruptive as AI. We should carefully consider its implications, educate people and new generations about its harms and merits, so that our institutions and communities can be better prepared to handle it. We obviously can't prepare for everything, but there's a world of difference between a YOLO approach you seem to be suggesting, and a measured way forward.

A counterpoint to a lax stance on industry regulation can be seen with Big Tobacco. It took many decades of high mortality rates related to smoking for governments to pass strict regulations. Tobacco companies lied and fought those regulations until the very end, and now they're still prospering in countries with lax regulations, or pivoting to more acceptable products like vapes.

My point is that companies don't care about harming society, even when they know their product is capable of it. Their only goal is increasing profits. With products like AI this potential harm is not immediately visible, and we might not discover it decades from now, perhaps when it's too late to reverse the damage.

> You think of society as a failing institution of sorts.

Not society as a whole. But if you don't see a shift away from democratic governments to authoritarianism, and an increase in sociopolitical tensions worldwide over the last decade in particular, we must be living in different worlds. If you also don't see the role the internet has played in this change, and how AI has the potential to make it significantly worse, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

> You are presupposing an outcome and you worry too much.

It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. :) I honestly don't worry much about this, but I am dumbfounded about how more people aren't ringing alarms from rooftops about the direction we're heading in.

> Don't regulate technology, regulate abusive behavior using the existing legal frameworks.

Technology moves too fast for legal frameworks to exist. And even when they do, companies will do their best to avoid them.

> We will pass all the laws we need as situations arise. And it will work.

It _might eventually_ "work". In the meantime, those situations that arise could have unprecedented impact that could've been avoided given some time and preparation.

What you seem to be ignoring is that modern technology is not just about building TVs, cars and airplanes. We came very close to a global thermonuclear war in the last century, and tensions are now rising again. Allowing technology to advance with no railguards or preparation, while more countries are ruled by egomaniacal manchildren, is just a recipe for disaster. All I'm suggesting is that it would be in our collective best interest to put more thought into the implications of what we're building.

[1]: https://newenglandaviationhistory.com/tag/connecticut-aviati...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Convention_of_1919

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#52
post #37

Why are AI researchers constantly handicapping everything they do under the guise of ""safety""? It's a bag of data and some math algorithms that generate text....

> It's a bag of data and some math algorithms that generate text.... I agree with the general premise of too much "safety", but this argument is invalid. Humans are bags of meat and they can do some pretty terrible things.

But what we're doing to these models is literally censoring what they're saying - not doing.

I don't think that anyone has any problems with stopping random AIs when they're doing crimes (or more realistically the humans making them do that) - but if you're going to make the comparison to humans in good faith, it'd be a person standing behind you, punishing you when you say something offensive.

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#53
post #52
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a bag of data and some math algorithms that generate text.... I agree with the general premise of too much "safety", but this argument is invalid. Humans are bags of meat and they can do some pretty terrible things.

But what we're doing to these models is literally censoring what they're saying - not doing. I don't think that anyone has any problems with stopping random AIs when they're doing crimes (or more realistically the humans making them do that) - but if you're going to make the comparison to humans in good faith, it'd be a person standing behind you, punishing you when you say something offensive.

What I'm saying is that the argument "they're math and data, therefore what they say is safe" is not a valid one.

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if an AI model could tell you exactly how to modify a common virus to kill 50% of everyone it infects?

Yeah. It's will start it's instruction with recommendation of buying some high-tech biolab for $100,000,000. Seriously. The reason why we dont have mass killings everywhere is not the fact that information on how to make explosive drones or poisons is impossible to find or access. It's also not so hard to buy a car or knife. Hell you can even find YouTube videos on how exactly uranium enrichment works step by step. E…

you cannot compare making nuclear weapons to modifying viruses to be more lethal. It is vastly cheaper to modify viruses and the knowledge is bottleneck vs nukes were the knowledge of how to make them is very widespread but getting the materials is very hard.

another example is if a LLM could tell you exactly how to build a tabletop laser device that could enrich uranium for a few hundred thousand dollars.

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#55
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. It's will start it's instruction with recommendation of buying some high-tech biolab for $100,000,000. Seriously. The reason why we dont have mass killings everywhere is not the fact that information on how to make explosive drones or poisons is impossible to find or access. It's also not so hard to buy a car or knife. Hell you can even find YouTube videos on how exactly uranium enrichment works step by step. E…

you cannot compare making nuclear weapons to modifying viruses to be more lethal. It is vastly cheaper to modify viruses and the knowledge is bottleneck vs nukes were the knowledge of how to make them is very widespread but getting the materials is very hard. another example is if a LLM could tell you exactly how to build a tabletop laser device that could enrich uranium for a few hundred thousand dollars.

LLMs are not AGIs. LLMs can only ever tell you how to build a device to enrich uranium for few hundred thousand dollars if this information was already public knowledge and LLM was trained on it. Situation is the same with building biolab tech for few hundred thousand dollars. Also if there was an actor who have few millions already they wouldn't have any problem to get their hands on any LLM or scientist who able to build it for them.

The only "danger" LLM "safety" can prevent is generation of racist porn stories.

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#56
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cannot compare making nuclear weapons to modifying viruses to be more lethal. It is vastly cheaper to modify viruses and the knowledge is bottleneck vs nukes were the knowledge of how to make them is very widespread but getting the materials is very hard. another example is if a LLM could tell you exactly how to build a tabletop laser device that could enrich uranium for a few hundred thousand dollars.

LLMs are not AGIs. LLMs can only ever tell you how to build a device to enrich uranium for few hundred thousand dollars if this information was already public knowledge and LLM was trained on it. Situation is the same with building biolab tech for few hundred thousand dollars. Also if there was an actor who have few millions already they wouldn't have any problem to get their hands on any LLM or scientist who able to…

With the vast amounts of data LLMs are trained on they make it much easier for people to find harmful and dangerous information if they aren't filtered. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_isotopes_by_lase...

Re: Show HN: Llama 3.3 70B Sparse Autoencoders with API access

#57
Should we expect the current API (https://docs.goodfire.ai/introduction) to be good for prod or is it for testing only?

I see that the sampling API is OpenAI-compatible (nice!). Considering if we can add a native integration for this to LiteLLM with a provider specific route - `goodfire/`. Would let people test this in projects like aider and dspy.

```python

from litellm import completion

import os

os.environ["GOODFIRE_API_KEY"] = "your-api-key"

response = completion( model="goodfire/meta-llama/Llama-3.3-70B-Instruct", messages=[{ "content": "Hello, how are you?","role": "user"}] )

```

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